Re: They also have a forced locality


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Re: They also have a forced locality

Posted By: MrHen Date: 10/24/06 5:54 p.m.
In Response To: Re: They also have a forced locality (howekern)

: We're not given any timescale for the growth. Rampancy and it's growth
: requirements may develope slowly, over a period of years. Durandal might
: not need a planetary-sized network for years yet. Also, bear in mind that
: this is a human planetary network; just because the Pfhor can't build AIs
: doesn't mean that every aspect of their computational technology is
: inferior. A scout ship might very well represent the same reserve of
: resources as the sum of the networks covering an entire human world - or,
: at least enough of a network to sustain him for a while.
This is Leela's take on the growth:
Theoretically, the Marathon Computer Net is not big enough to
sustain Rampant growth for very long. This means that as
Durandal grows into the Computer Net, he will begin to affect
all aspects of the ship, resulting in unpredictable failures
of otherwise benign computer systems.
What very long means is a little subjective.
Traxus' growth and infiltration was apparently fast:
By the
time that the Rampancy of Traxus was detected, he had already
infiltrated five of the other AIs on the Martian Net.
Granted, this growth does not necessarily mean quick. Traxus could have snuck into the other AIs.
But the growth is actually described as exponential:
The confinement of the laboratory makes it
impossible for the developing Rampant AI to survive. As the
growing recursive programs expand with exponential vivacity,
any limitation negatively hampers growth.
So yeah, it would be very fast. Actually... it would be ridiculously fast...
Most of us understand exponential growth, but here are some numbers anyway:
Given the (rather weak) assumption that Durandal needed 10GB of hard-drive space and 1GB of RAM and the growth simply doubled in the process of 1 day... in a week, he would be taking up 1,280 GB disk and need 128 GB of RAM.
Two weeks, 163,840 GB and 16,384 GB.
Three: 20,971,520 GB diskspace.
Realistically, change that from GB to Petabytes or something.
In percentages, given that Durandal requires .0001% of Marathon's resources but doubling every day, he would need under three weeks to require all of the resources of the Marathon.
While sitting next to Tau Ceti, he could probably have offloaded some of the requirements, but Durandal had been rampant for a long time. He was already in the second stage of rampancy. While we do not have exact numbers for his growth, whatever it was, the Marathon was not able to hold him once he started his growth spurt.
Considering how much growth was possible, Durandal must have been pretty mad at Strauss for holding him back.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/2/05 1:37 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues *NM* J-M 4/2/05 1:37 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/2/05 1:38 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Bob-B-Q 4/2/05 2:29 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues duality 4/2/05 8:20 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/3/05 7:03 a.m.

They also have a forced locality MrHen 4/3/05 8:52 a.m.

Does seem that way. J-M 4/3/05 10:33 a.m.

Continuity howekern 4/3/05 4:22 p.m.

Re: Continuity J-M 4/3/05 8:45 p.m.

Re: Continuity howekern 4/5/05 3:31 p.m.

Copied identities MrHen 4/5/05 6:44 p.m.

Continuity again Forrest of B.org 4/5/05 7:29 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Chlazza 4/3/05 10:55 a.m.

Interesting. J-M 4/3/05 1:01 p.m.

Re: Interesting. Chlazza 4/3/05 2:45 p.m.

Re: Interesting. J-M 4/3/05 3:19 p.m.

Copied people MrHen 4/3/05 5:37 p.m.

Re: Interesting. thermoplyae 4/3/05 6:45 p.m.

Re: Interesting. J-M 4/3/05 8:49 p.m.

At least twice MrHen 4/4/05 5:34 a.m.

Google just shows those two. *NM* MrHen 4/4/05 5:57 a.m.

Re: Interesting. thermoplyae 4/6/05 11:41 a.m.

Re: Interesting. Chaemera 4/3/05 8:17 p.m.

modern AIs Josh M. 4/13/05 7:53 p.m.

daisy daisy.... *NM* duality 4/13/05 9:04 p.m.

Re: Interesting. Document 10/24/06 7:53 a.m.

copying neural networks? MrHen 10/24/06 4:45 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality howekern 4/5/05 4:03 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality blake37 4/5/05 4:25 p.m.

Yow... and I agree. MrHen 4/5/05 7:12 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality J-M 4/6/05 1:56 a.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Steve Levinson 4/6/05 7:44 a.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality J-M 4/6/05 5:50 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality MrHen 10/24/06 5:54 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Forrest of B.org 10/24/06 6:29 p.m.

Where is Leela's last message? MrHen 10/25/06 5:01 a.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Document 10/25/06 9:50 a.m.

they spelled it wrong... *NM* MrHen 10/25/06 10:18 a.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Document 10/24/06 8:23 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality ukimalefu 10/24/06 8:53 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality thermoplyae 10/24/06 10:49 p.m.

what? MrHen 10/25/06 5:21 a.m.

Re: what? thermoplyae 10/25/06 7:29 a.m.

misunderstandings... :P MrHen 10/25/06 8:45 a.m.

Re: misunderstandings... :P Document 10/25/06 9:52 a.m.

thanks! you rock... MrHen 10/25/06 10:19 a.m.

Re: misunderstandings... :P thermoplyae 10/25/06 11:57 a.m.

oh, got it MrHen 10/25/06 12:59 p.m.

Re: oh, got it thermoplyae 10/25/06 1:26 p.m.

#alephone, eh? MrHen 10/25/06 8:30 p.m.

Re: #alephone, eh? thermoplyae 10/25/06 11:17 p.m.

Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth Forrest of B.org 10/25/06 4:15 p.m.

Re: Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth thermoplyae 10/25/06 11:14 p.m.

More numbers MrHen 10/25/06 5:18 a.m.

AIs as "Ghosts in the machine" ForceMorph 4/8/05 6:16 p.m.

Re: AIs as "Ghosts in the machine" Forrest of B.org 4/8/05 8:05 p.m.

Shades of Mamoru Oshii... *NM* Bob-B-Q 4/9/05 5:56 a.m.

Re: "a planetary sized network" Document 10/25/06 4:51 p.m.

My likely-nonsense theory howekern 4/3/05 4:10 p.m.

Re: My likely-nonsense theory Chaemera 4/3/05 8:28 p.m.

Re: My likely-nonsense theory J-M 4/3/05 8:45 p.m.

Durandal has you! *NM* ukimalefu 4/3/05 10:06 p.m.

Re: Durandal has you! J-M 4/3/05 10:18 p.m.

Re: My likely-nonsense theory MrHen 4/4/05 5:47 a.m.

Re: My likely-nonsense theory Steve Levinson 4/4/05 12:19 p.m.

Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology Forrest of B.org 4/3/05 10:20 p.m.

Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology Forrest of B.org 4/3/05 10:22 p.m.

Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology MrHen 4/4/05 5:55 a.m.

Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology Document 11/1/06 9:31 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/6/05 5:55 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Forrest of B.org 4/7/05 8:34 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/7/05 4:37 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Forrest of B.org 4/7/05 5:10 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/8/05 1:41 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Steve Levinson 4/8/05 8:29 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues duality 4/11/05 1:57 p.m.

Doesn't account for the world reset. MrHen 4/13/05 5:40 a.m.

Re: Doesn't account for the world reset. Andrew Nagy (mb) 4/13/05 10:48 a.m.

Re: Doesn't account for the world reset. howekern 4/13/05 4:39 p.m.

Re: Doesn't account for the world reset. ukimalefu 4/14/05 12:52 p.m.

Yeah, but that's boring MrHen 4/15/05 8:03 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Forrest of B.org 4/11/05 3:11 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/11/05 3:42 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Document 10/24/06 8:49 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, The Autonomy of an AI AlexZander 10/30/06 2:35 p.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: This is Leela's take on the growth: Theoretically, the Marathon Computer Net : is not big enough to : sustain Rampant growth for very long. This means that as : Durandal grows into the Computer Net, he will begin to affect : all aspects of the ship, resulting in unpredictable failures : of otherwise benign computer systems. : What very long means is a little subjective. : Traxus' growth and infiltration was apparently fast: By the : time that the Rampancy of Traxus was detected, he had already : infiltrated five of the other AIs on the Martian Net. : Granted, this growth does not necessarily mean quick. Traxus could have snuck : into the other AIs. : But the growth is actually described as exponential : The confinement of : the laboratory makes it : impossible for the developing Rampant AI to survive. As the : growing recursive programs expand with exponential vivacity, : any limitation negatively hampers growth. : So yeah, it would be very fast. Actually... it would be ridiculously fast... : Most of us understand exponential growth, but here are some numbers anyway: : Given the (rather weak) assumption that Durandal needed 10GB of hard-drive : space and 1GB of RAM and the growth simply doubled in the process of 1 : day... in a week, he would be taking up 1,280 GB disk and need 128 GB of : RAM. : Two weeks, 163,840 GB and 16,384 GB. : Three: 20,971,520 GB diskspace. : Realistically, change that from GB to Petabytes or something. : In percentages, given that Durandal requires .0001% of Marathon's resources : but doubling every day, he would need under three weeks to require all : of the resources of the Marathon. : While sitting next to Tau Ceti, he could probably have offloaded some of the : requirements, but Durandal had been rampant for a long time. He was : already in the second stage of rampancy. While we do not have exact : numbers for his growth, whatever it was, the Marathon was not able to hold : him once he started his growth spurt. : Considering how much growth was possible, Durandal must have been pretty mad : at Strauss for holding him back.

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Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/2/05 1:37 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues NM	J-M	4/2/05 1:37 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/2/05 1:38 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Bob-B-Q	4/2/05 2:29 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	duality	4/2/05 8:20 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/3/05 7:03 a.m.
They also have a forced locality	MrHen	4/3/05 8:52 a.m.
Does seem that way.	J-M	4/3/05 10:33 a.m.
Continuity	howekern	4/3/05 4:22 p.m.
Re: Continuity	J-M	4/3/05 8:45 p.m.
Re: Continuity	howekern	4/5/05 3:31 p.m.
Copied identities	MrHen	4/5/05 6:44 p.m.
Continuity again	Forrest of B.org	4/5/05 7:29 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Chlazza	4/3/05 10:55 a.m.
Interesting.	J-M	4/3/05 1:01 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	Chlazza	4/3/05 2:45 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	J-M	4/3/05 3:19 p.m.
Copied people	MrHen	4/3/05 5:37 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	thermoplyae	4/3/05 6:45 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	J-M	4/3/05 8:49 p.m.
At least twice	MrHen	4/4/05 5:34 a.m.
Google just shows those two. NM	MrHen	4/4/05 5:57 a.m.
Re: Interesting.	thermoplyae	4/6/05 11:41 a.m.
Re: Interesting.	Chaemera	4/3/05 8:17 p.m.
modern AIs	Josh M.	4/13/05 7:53 p.m.
daisy daisy.... NM	duality	4/13/05 9:04 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	Document	10/24/06 7:53 a.m.
copying neural networks?	MrHen	10/24/06 4:45 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	howekern	4/5/05 4:03 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	blake37	4/5/05 4:25 p.m.
Yow... and I agree.	MrHen	4/5/05 7:12 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	J-M	4/6/05 1:56 a.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Steve Levinson	4/6/05 7:44 a.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	J-M	4/6/05 5:50 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	MrHen	10/24/06 5:54 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Forrest of B.org	10/24/06 6:29 p.m.
Where is Leela's last message?	MrHen	10/25/06 5:01 a.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Document	10/25/06 9:50 a.m.
they spelled it wrong... NM	MrHen	10/25/06 10:18 a.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Document	10/24/06 8:23 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	ukimalefu	10/24/06 8:53 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	thermoplyae	10/24/06 10:49 p.m.
what?	MrHen	10/25/06 5:21 a.m.
Re: what?	thermoplyae	10/25/06 7:29 a.m.
misunderstandings... :P	MrHen	10/25/06 8:45 a.m.
Re: misunderstandings... :P	Document	10/25/06 9:52 a.m.
thanks! you rock...	MrHen	10/25/06 10:19 a.m.
Re: misunderstandings... :P	thermoplyae	10/25/06 11:57 a.m.
oh, got it	MrHen	10/25/06 12:59 p.m.
Re: oh, got it	thermoplyae	10/25/06 1:26 p.m.
#alephone, eh?	MrHen	10/25/06 8:30 p.m.
Re: #alephone, eh?	thermoplyae	10/25/06 11:17 p.m.
Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth	Forrest of B.org	10/25/06 4:15 p.m.
Re: Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth	thermoplyae	10/25/06 11:14 p.m.
More numbers	MrHen	10/25/06 5:18 a.m.
AIs as "Ghosts in the machine"	ForceMorph	4/8/05 6:16 p.m.
Re: AIs as "Ghosts in the machine"	Forrest of B.org	4/8/05 8:05 p.m.
Shades of Mamoru Oshii... NM	Bob-B-Q	4/9/05 5:56 a.m.
Re: "a planetary sized network"	Document	10/25/06 4:51 p.m.
My likely-nonsense theory	howekern	4/3/05 4:10 p.m.
Re: My likely-nonsense theory	Chaemera	4/3/05 8:28 p.m.
Re: My likely-nonsense theory	J-M	4/3/05 8:45 p.m.
Durandal has you! NM	ukimalefu	4/3/05 10:06 p.m.
Re: Durandal has you!	J-M	4/3/05 10:18 p.m.
Re: My likely-nonsense theory	MrHen	4/4/05 5:47 a.m.
Re: My likely-nonsense theory	Steve Levinson	4/4/05 12:19 p.m.
Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology	Forrest of B.org	4/3/05 10:20 p.m.
Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology	Forrest of B.org	4/3/05 10:22 p.m.
Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology	MrHen	4/4/05 5:55 a.m.
Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology	Document	11/1/06 9:31 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/6/05 5:55 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Forrest of B.org	4/7/05 8:34 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/7/05 4:37 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Forrest of B.org	4/7/05 5:10 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/8/05 1:41 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Steve Levinson	4/8/05 8:29 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	duality	4/11/05 1:57 p.m.
Doesn't account for the world reset.	MrHen	4/13/05 5:40 a.m.
Re: Doesn't account for the world reset.	Andrew Nagy (mb)	4/13/05 10:48 a.m.
Re: Doesn't account for the world reset.	howekern	4/13/05 4:39 p.m.
Re: Doesn't account for the world reset.	ukimalefu	4/14/05 12:52 p.m.
Yeah, but that's boring	MrHen	4/15/05 8:03 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Forrest of B.org	4/11/05 3:11 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/11/05 3:42 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Document	10/24/06 8:49 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, The Autonomy of an AI	AlexZander	10/30/06 2:35 p.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : This is Leela's take on the growth: Theoretically, the Marathon Computer Net : is not big enough to : sustain Rampant growth for very long. This means that as : Durandal grows into the Computer Net, he will begin to affect : all aspects of the ship, resulting in unpredictable failures : of otherwise benign computer systems. : What very long means is a little subjective. : Traxus' growth and infiltration was apparently fast: By the : time that the Rampancy of Traxus was detected, he had already : infiltrated five of the other AIs on the Martian Net. : Granted, this growth does not necessarily mean quick. Traxus could have snuck : into the other AIs. : But the growth is actually described as exponential : The confinement of : the laboratory makes it : impossible for the developing Rampant AI to survive. As the : growing recursive programs expand with exponential vivacity, : any limitation negatively hampers growth. : So yeah, it would be very fast. Actually... it would be ridiculously fast... : Most of us understand exponential growth, but here are some numbers anyway: : Given the (rather weak) assumption that Durandal needed 10GB of hard-drive : space and 1GB of RAM and the growth simply doubled in the process of 1 : day... in a week, he would be taking up 1,280 GB disk and need 128 GB of : RAM. : Two weeks, 163,840 GB and 16,384 GB. : Three: 20,971,520 GB diskspace. : Realistically, change that from GB to Petabytes or something. : In percentages, given that Durandal requires .0001% of Marathon's resources : but doubling every day, he would need under three weeks to require all : of the resources of the Marathon. : While sitting next to Tau Ceti, he could probably have offloaded some of the : requirements, but Durandal had been rampant for a long time. He was : already in the second stage of rampancy. While we do not have exact : numbers for his growth, whatever it was, the Marathon was not able to hold : him once he started his growth spurt. : Considering how much growth was possible, Durandal must have been pretty mad : at Strauss for holding him back.
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