Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues


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Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues

Posted By: J-M Date: 4/3/05 7:03 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues (duality)

: Could be through an infrared/radio port for remote control. Or even more
: disturbing, the S'pht could be especially designed to interface with human
: computers.
That completely fails to account for the basic lack of interface protocols. They're doing really weird stuff, from a technical standpoint. You can't just "attack" a computer program, and it doesn't seem to be used as a metaphor for hacking it. It seems like Leela is literally being s'phlattered all over.
: Well what else would you call an inorganic (meaning _A_rtificial, or else
: mineral but that seems almost silly) sentient (in other words,
: _I_ntelligence)?
I know. What I mean is that we never see any AIs with physical avatars. There are no robots running around, no mechanized critters. Sorry for being inexact.
: Could add compactness or compression to an extremely vast system, especially
: one that's closed for 300+ years where every gram counts.
Wouldn't really help that much. I'm thinking that they run some sort of analog decisional system. Like thresholding gates. The thing I'm getting at is that there's an issue here, if you want to be particular about Marathon's realism.
The AIs have some pretty weird properties that suggest we're dealing with something other than a traditional machine intelligence, either neural or (and I hesitate to even mention this because it's so implausible) decisional. They act like some exotic hybrid of the two. I can explain in detail, but it'd take some work.
That's pretty darn hard to do, so what I've been wondering is what if these AIs have an organic component. That'd explain how two AIs can merge, something that's almost impossible, so implausible that even pulp sci-fi writers almost never do it. The only other time I've seen it was in Deus Ex and I think that might have been a marathon homage.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/2/05 1:37 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues *NM* J-M 4/2/05 1:37 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/2/05 1:38 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Bob-B-Q 4/2/05 2:29 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues duality 4/2/05 8:20 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/3/05 7:03 a.m.

They also have a forced locality MrHen 4/3/05 8:52 a.m.

Does seem that way. J-M 4/3/05 10:33 a.m.

Continuity howekern 4/3/05 4:22 p.m.

Re: Continuity J-M 4/3/05 8:45 p.m.

Re: Continuity howekern 4/5/05 3:31 p.m.

Copied identities MrHen 4/5/05 6:44 p.m.

Continuity again Forrest of B.org 4/5/05 7:29 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Chlazza 4/3/05 10:55 a.m.

Interesting. J-M 4/3/05 1:01 p.m.

Re: Interesting. Chlazza 4/3/05 2:45 p.m.

Re: Interesting. J-M 4/3/05 3:19 p.m.

Copied people MrHen 4/3/05 5:37 p.m.

Re: Interesting. thermoplyae 4/3/05 6:45 p.m.

Re: Interesting. J-M 4/3/05 8:49 p.m.

At least twice MrHen 4/4/05 5:34 a.m.

Google just shows those two. *NM* MrHen 4/4/05 5:57 a.m.

Re: Interesting. thermoplyae 4/6/05 11:41 a.m.

Re: Interesting. Chaemera 4/3/05 8:17 p.m.

modern AIs Josh M. 4/13/05 7:53 p.m.

daisy daisy.... *NM* duality 4/13/05 9:04 p.m.

Re: Interesting. Document 10/24/06 7:53 a.m.

copying neural networks? MrHen 10/24/06 4:45 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality howekern 4/5/05 4:03 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality blake37 4/5/05 4:25 p.m.

Yow... and I agree. MrHen 4/5/05 7:12 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality J-M 4/6/05 1:56 a.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Steve Levinson 4/6/05 7:44 a.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality J-M 4/6/05 5:50 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality MrHen 10/24/06 5:54 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Forrest of B.org 10/24/06 6:29 p.m.

Where is Leela's last message? MrHen 10/25/06 5:01 a.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Document 10/25/06 9:50 a.m.

they spelled it wrong... *NM* MrHen 10/25/06 10:18 a.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality Document 10/24/06 8:23 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality ukimalefu 10/24/06 8:53 p.m.

Re: They also have a forced locality thermoplyae 10/24/06 10:49 p.m.

what? MrHen 10/25/06 5:21 a.m.

Re: what? thermoplyae 10/25/06 7:29 a.m.

misunderstandings... :P MrHen 10/25/06 8:45 a.m.

Re: misunderstandings... :P Document 10/25/06 9:52 a.m.

thanks! you rock... MrHen 10/25/06 10:19 a.m.

Re: misunderstandings... :P thermoplyae 10/25/06 11:57 a.m.

oh, got it MrHen 10/25/06 12:59 p.m.

Re: oh, got it thermoplyae 10/25/06 1:26 p.m.

#alephone, eh? MrHen 10/25/06 8:30 p.m.

Re: #alephone, eh? thermoplyae 10/25/06 11:17 p.m.

Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth Forrest of B.org 10/25/06 4:15 p.m.

Re: Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth thermoplyae 10/25/06 11:14 p.m.

More numbers MrHen 10/25/06 5:18 a.m.

AIs as "Ghosts in the machine" ForceMorph 4/8/05 6:16 p.m.

Re: AIs as "Ghosts in the machine" Forrest of B.org 4/8/05 8:05 p.m.

Shades of Mamoru Oshii... *NM* Bob-B-Q 4/9/05 5:56 a.m.

Re: "a planetary sized network" Document 10/25/06 4:51 p.m.

My likely-nonsense theory howekern 4/3/05 4:10 p.m.

Re: My likely-nonsense theory Chaemera 4/3/05 8:28 p.m.

Re: My likely-nonsense theory J-M 4/3/05 8:45 p.m.

Durandal has you! *NM* ukimalefu 4/3/05 10:06 p.m.

Re: Durandal has you! J-M 4/3/05 10:18 p.m.

Re: My likely-nonsense theory MrHen 4/4/05 5:47 a.m.

Re: My likely-nonsense theory Steve Levinson 4/4/05 12:19 p.m.

Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology Forrest of B.org 4/3/05 10:20 p.m.

Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology Forrest of B.org 4/3/05 10:22 p.m.

Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology MrHen 4/4/05 5:55 a.m.

Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology Document 11/1/06 9:31 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/6/05 5:55 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Forrest of B.org 4/7/05 8:34 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/7/05 4:37 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Forrest of B.org 4/7/05 5:10 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/8/05 1:41 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Steve Levinson 4/8/05 8:29 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues duality 4/11/05 1:57 p.m.

Doesn't account for the world reset. MrHen 4/13/05 5:40 a.m.

Re: Doesn't account for the world reset. Andrew Nagy (mb) 4/13/05 10:48 a.m.

Re: Doesn't account for the world reset. howekern 4/13/05 4:39 p.m.

Re: Doesn't account for the world reset. ukimalefu 4/14/05 12:52 p.m.

Yeah, but that's boring MrHen 4/15/05 8:03 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Forrest of B.org 4/11/05 3:11 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues J-M 4/11/05 3:42 p.m.

Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues Document 10/24/06 8:49 a.m.

Re: Cybertonics, The Autonomy of an AI AlexZander 10/30/06 2:35 p.m.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: That completely fails to account for the basic lack of interface protocols. : They're doing really weird stuff, from a technical standpoint. You can't : just "attack" a computer program, and it doesn't seem to be used : as a metaphor for hacking it. It seems like Leela is literally being : s'phlattered all over. : I know. What I mean is that we never see any AIs with physical avatars. There : are no robots running around, no mechanized critters. Sorry for being : inexact. : Wouldn't really help that much. I'm thinking that they run some sort of : analog decisional system. Like thresholding gates. The thing I'm getting : at is that there's an issue here, if you want to be particular about : Marathon's realism. : The AIs have some pretty weird properties that suggest we're dealing with : something other than a traditional machine intelligence, either neural or : (and I hesitate to even mention this because it's so implausible) : decisional. They act like some exotic hybrid of the two. I can explain in : detail, but it'd take some work. : That's pretty darn hard to do, so what I've been wondering is what if these : AIs have an organic component. That'd explain how two AIs can merge, : something that's almost impossible, so implausible that even pulp sci-fi : writers almost never do it. The only other time I've seen it was in Deus : Ex and I think that might have been a marathon homage.

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Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/2/05 1:37 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues NM	J-M	4/2/05 1:37 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/2/05 1:38 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Bob-B-Q	4/2/05 2:29 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	duality	4/2/05 8:20 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/3/05 7:03 a.m.
They also have a forced locality	MrHen	4/3/05 8:52 a.m.
Does seem that way.	J-M	4/3/05 10:33 a.m.
Continuity	howekern	4/3/05 4:22 p.m.
Re: Continuity	J-M	4/3/05 8:45 p.m.
Re: Continuity	howekern	4/5/05 3:31 p.m.
Copied identities	MrHen	4/5/05 6:44 p.m.
Continuity again	Forrest of B.org	4/5/05 7:29 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Chlazza	4/3/05 10:55 a.m.
Interesting.	J-M	4/3/05 1:01 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	Chlazza	4/3/05 2:45 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	J-M	4/3/05 3:19 p.m.
Copied people	MrHen	4/3/05 5:37 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	thermoplyae	4/3/05 6:45 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	J-M	4/3/05 8:49 p.m.
At least twice	MrHen	4/4/05 5:34 a.m.
Google just shows those two. NM	MrHen	4/4/05 5:57 a.m.
Re: Interesting.	thermoplyae	4/6/05 11:41 a.m.
Re: Interesting.	Chaemera	4/3/05 8:17 p.m.
modern AIs	Josh M.	4/13/05 7:53 p.m.
daisy daisy.... NM	duality	4/13/05 9:04 p.m.
Re: Interesting.	Document	10/24/06 7:53 a.m.
copying neural networks?	MrHen	10/24/06 4:45 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	howekern	4/5/05 4:03 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	blake37	4/5/05 4:25 p.m.
Yow... and I agree.	MrHen	4/5/05 7:12 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	J-M	4/6/05 1:56 a.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Steve Levinson	4/6/05 7:44 a.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	J-M	4/6/05 5:50 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	MrHen	10/24/06 5:54 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Forrest of B.org	10/24/06 6:29 p.m.
Where is Leela's last message?	MrHen	10/25/06 5:01 a.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Document	10/25/06 9:50 a.m.
they spelled it wrong... NM	MrHen	10/25/06 10:18 a.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	Document	10/24/06 8:23 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	ukimalefu	10/24/06 8:53 p.m.
Re: They also have a forced locality	thermoplyae	10/24/06 10:49 p.m.
what?	MrHen	10/25/06 5:21 a.m.
Re: what?	thermoplyae	10/25/06 7:29 a.m.
misunderstandings... :P	MrHen	10/25/06 8:45 a.m.
Re: misunderstandings... :P	Document	10/25/06 9:52 a.m.
thanks! you rock...	MrHen	10/25/06 10:19 a.m.
Re: misunderstandings... :P	thermoplyae	10/25/06 11:57 a.m.
oh, got it	MrHen	10/25/06 12:59 p.m.
Re: oh, got it	thermoplyae	10/25/06 1:26 p.m.
#alephone, eh?	MrHen	10/25/06 8:30 p.m.
Re: #alephone, eh?	thermoplyae	10/25/06 11:17 p.m.
Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth	Forrest of B.org	10/25/06 4:15 p.m.
Re: Rampancy and Exponentiatial Growth	thermoplyae	10/25/06 11:14 p.m.
More numbers	MrHen	10/25/06 5:18 a.m.
AIs as "Ghosts in the machine"	ForceMorph	4/8/05 6:16 p.m.
Re: AIs as "Ghosts in the machine"	Forrest of B.org	4/8/05 8:05 p.m.
Shades of Mamoru Oshii... NM	Bob-B-Q	4/9/05 5:56 a.m.
Re: "a planetary sized network"	Document	10/25/06 4:51 p.m.
My likely-nonsense theory	howekern	4/3/05 4:10 p.m.
Re: My likely-nonsense theory	Chaemera	4/3/05 8:28 p.m.
Re: My likely-nonsense theory	J-M	4/3/05 8:45 p.m.
Durandal has you! NM	ukimalefu	4/3/05 10:06 p.m.
Re: Durandal has you!	J-M	4/3/05 10:18 p.m.
Re: My likely-nonsense theory	MrHen	4/4/05 5:47 a.m.
Re: My likely-nonsense theory	Steve Levinson	4/4/05 12:19 p.m.
Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology	Forrest of B.org	4/3/05 10:20 p.m.
Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology	Forrest of B.org	4/3/05 10:22 p.m.
Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology	MrHen	4/4/05 5:55 a.m.
Re: Stages of Rampancy in Human Psychology	Document	11/1/06 9:31 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/6/05 5:55 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Forrest of B.org	4/7/05 8:34 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/7/05 4:37 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Forrest of B.org	4/7/05 5:10 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/8/05 1:41 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Steve Levinson	4/8/05 8:29 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	duality	4/11/05 1:57 p.m.
Doesn't account for the world reset.	MrHen	4/13/05 5:40 a.m.
Re: Doesn't account for the world reset.	Andrew Nagy (mb)	4/13/05 10:48 a.m.
Re: Doesn't account for the world reset.	howekern	4/13/05 4:39 p.m.
Re: Doesn't account for the world reset.	ukimalefu	4/14/05 12:52 p.m.
Yeah, but that's boring	MrHen	4/15/05 8:03 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Forrest of B.org	4/11/05 3:11 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	J-M	4/11/05 3:42 p.m.
Re: Cybertonics, AIs, and fundamental issues	Document	10/24/06 8:49 a.m.
Re: Cybertonics, The Autonomy of an AI	AlexZander	10/30/06 2:35 p.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
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	Message: : That completely fails to account for the basic lack of interface protocols. : They're doing really weird stuff, from a technical standpoint. You can't : just "attack" a computer program, and it doesn't seem to be used : as a metaphor for hacking it. It seems like Leela is literally being : s'phlattered all over. : I know. What I mean is that we never see any AIs with physical avatars. There : are no robots running around, no mechanized critters. Sorry for being : inexact. : Wouldn't really help that much. I'm thinking that they run some sort of : analog decisional system. Like thresholding gates. The thing I'm getting : at is that there's an issue here, if you want to be particular about : Marathon's realism. : The AIs have some pretty weird properties that suggest we're dealing with : something other than a traditional machine intelligence, either neural or : (and I hesitate to even mention this because it's so implausible) : decisional. They act like some exotic hybrid of the two. I can explain in : detail, but it'd take some work. : That's pretty darn hard to do, so what I've been wondering is what if these : AIs have an organic component. That'd explain how two AIs can merge, : something that's almost impossible, so implausible that even pulp sci-fi : writers almost never do it. The only other time I've seen it was in Deus : Ex and I think that might have been a marathon homage.
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