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Re: Well that's whack
Posted By: Narcogen <narcogen@rampancy.net>Date: 6/23/11 1:18 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Well that's whack (Louis Wu)


: We don't know yet. Nothing you ask here will change that - because clearly
: 343 doesn't want us to know yet.

That's fine. It's just that now I'm catching flack for pointing out that Frankie didn't actually answer the question, and referring me to his response as if it does answer the question. Which it doesn't. I've read it and I can tell it doesn't answer the question.

All I'm asking is for people to admit that his response was not an answer. If whether the terminals are in-character or not is a trade secret at this point, that's fine.

: However, the WAY you're asking these questions (by assuming the worst, and
: phrasing your question in a way that makes people start considering the
: negative before we actually know anything) is starting to get to ME.
: You're not asking "hmm, I wonder how they're going to handle the
: issue of information that MC's not supposed to have going through the
: game?" - you're asking "how badly will the dramatic tension be
: damaged by the way that 343 presents this information we're not supposed
: to have to the player?"

No, I'm asking whether or not the information is to be presented as an in-character exchange or not. If it is, then the only way the question can be answered of if it will damage the dramatic tension or not is to see the actual materials-- and I know better than to ask in advance what they are. At that point I would probably only bother to mention aloud that I hope 343 will resist the temptation to put in too much material and thereby damage the dramatic tension, because the possibility exists.

Of course, if the exchange is not in-character, then no matter what information they put into them, it can't possibly affect dramatic tension, and all the nasty, pessimistic nay-sayers like myself can go back to nattering about jetpacks, I guess.

: In other words, you've already DECIDED (or so it seems from your wording)
: that they're going to fuck it up - and you're just trying to guess how
: BADLY it's going to be done.

I've decided that the temptation to put in significant materials may be great. I've decided that the potential to unwittingly reduce tension is great. I've decided that since the production issues in a feature like this are a bit different than other portions of the game, it may be worth raising the issue now on the off-chance that it has not actually been considered that ancillary material might introduce what are essentially "spoilers" for a ten-year-old game. It is conceivable to me that the objection might be rejected out of hand.

: It's as though you haven't even considered the idea that maybe they thought
: of this same issue before they started - and came up with a way around the
: problem! (I have no idea if they did or not - but I'm willing to withhold
: judgement until I either see it for myself, or until someone who HAS seen
: it tells me which way it went.)

Yes, it has. I don't necessarily feel obligated to point out, in advance, ways in which I think challenges may be positively resolved. There seem to be plenty of people willing to point that out; the conversation doesn't need me to do that.

: It's really, really clear that you're underwhelmed by 343's showing so far.
: That's totally fine - you're absolutely entitled to your opinion. But
: you're allowing your dissatisfaction with what you DO know to interfere
: with your willingness to allow them to prove themselves with an actual
: product - that's not the Narc I know. :(

Please don't think that I haven't considered that as well. However, the alternative-- which seems to be that in order for me to come to 343's materials with a truly blank slate, I have to ignore everything they do and say between now and release, and buy the products sight unseen. That's certainly not a privilege I ever afforded Bungie, even if in pre-purchase deliberations I was generally among those inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. I can only say that, by and large, Bungie's pre-release materials did inspire confidence, and their releases, with few exceptions, justified that confidence.

The alternative seems to be to actually stop thinking about it until the games come out-- and that's really just not the kind of fan I am or want to be. If I have to not think about the game, either before I play it or after I'm done playing it, it's not going to really be enjoyable for me. I may be unusual in that respect, I admit.

The bottom line is that I feel less apprehension about not being completely objective with regards to what 343i intends to do with the franchise than I do about what 343i appears to intend to do with the franchise. But I will freely admit that thinking about it more does not appear to improve the situation; neither do responses that suggest that prerelease materials and statements are unfair subject for judgement-- not of the games, but of the materials and statements themselves-- or that responses of "trust us" accompanied by a wink and a nod are seen as justified, when there would seem to be little reason for them to be.

I was skeptical about Bungie's ability to pull off a AAA console shooter, even after all the good Mac/PC games they did. If I'm naturally skeptical about what 343i is about to do with Halo, especially in light of my general opinion of most of the extra materials (which is not overwhelmingly positive) on the basis of what references is this skepticism to be counted as unjustified? Is 343i now, with no releases whatsoever to their credit, to be accorded more benefit of the doubt than I accorded Bungie more than a decade ago?

rampancy.net


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Replies:

Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Elzarthebam 6/20/11 6:54 a.m.
     Its good to hear that voice again! *NM*Myyke 6/20/11 7:07 a.m.
     Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!mattroe 6/20/11 7:08 a.m.
           Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!nomis78 6/20/11 7:10 a.m.
                 Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Hedgemony 6/20/11 7:24 a.m.
                       Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Bry 6/20/11 9:21 a.m.
                             Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Hedgemony 6/20/11 10:56 a.m.
                                   Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Bry 6/20/11 11:14 a.m.
                       Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Leviathan 6/20/11 11:02 a.m.
           Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Myyke 6/20/11 7:20 a.m.
                 Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Myyke 6/20/11 7:23 a.m.
                       Hear hear!ZackDark 6/20/11 7:51 a.m.
                 Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!CaneCutter 6/20/11 8:46 a.m.
                       Ditto. Can't get enough of it *NM*mattroe 6/21/11 6:59 a.m.
                 Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Li11y32 6/21/11 5:38 p.m.
           Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!scarab 6/20/11 8:00 a.m.
           Why can't they simply remaster the music?The BS Police 6/20/11 8:05 a.m.
     Damn you!sharpsniper99 6/20/11 7:21 a.m.
     I don't know I to feel about this.Revenant1988 6/20/11 7:44 a.m.
           Re: I don't know I to feel about this.ZackDark 6/20/11 7:56 a.m.
           Re: I don't know I to feel about this.mattroe 6/20/11 7:59 a.m.
                 Re: I don't know I to feel about this.Revenant1988 6/20/11 8:05 a.m.
                       COME ON GUYS0postmortem0 6/20/11 10:42 a.m.
                             On the other hand...0postmortem0 6/20/11 10:49 a.m.
           Re: I don't know I to feel about this.BanditORR 6/20/11 8:46 a.m.
                 Re: I don't know I to feel about this.Avateur 6/20/11 8:54 a.m.
           Re: I don't know I to feel about this.Avateur 6/20/11 8:49 a.m.
                 Re: I don't know I to feel about this.Archilen 6/20/11 9:05 a.m.
     Re: Music sounds amazing *NM* *NM*hotshot revan 6/20/11 8:02 a.m.
     Well that's whackAvateur 6/20/11 8:45 a.m.
           Re: Well that's whackBry 6/20/11 9:30 a.m.
                 Re: Well that's whackAvateur 6/20/11 11:48 a.m.
                 Re: Well that's whackNarcogen 6/22/11 12:16 a.m.
                       Re: Well that's whackBry 6/22/11 5:29 a.m.
                             Re: Well that's whackNarcogen 6/22/11 5:50 a.m.
                                   Re: Well that's whackBry 6/22/11 6:12 a.m.
                                         Re: Well that's whackNarcogen 6/23/11 12:59 a.m.
                                   Re: Well that's whackLouis Wu 6/22/11 6:59 a.m.
                                         Re: Well that's whackBry 6/22/11 7:04 a.m.
                                               Re: Well that's whackNarcogen 6/23/11 1:20 a.m.
                                                     Re: Well that's whackBry 6/23/11 5:15 a.m.
                                                           Re: Well that's whackAvateur 6/23/11 11:52 a.m.
                                                           Re: Well that's whackNarcogen 6/24/11 12:56 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Well that's whackCody Miller 6/24/11 1:26 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Well that's whackHedgemony 6/24/11 2:19 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Well that's whackNarcogen 6/24/11 2:54 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Well that's whackGeneral Vagueness 6/24/11 8:54 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Well that's whackBry 6/24/11 10:37 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Well that's whackCody Miller 6/24/11 11:01 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Well that's whackBry 6/24/11 11:37 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: Well that's whackAvateur 6/24/11 12:25 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Well that's whackBry 6/24/11 1:01 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Well that's whackAvateur 6/24/11 1:48 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Well that's whackLouis Wu 6/24/11 1:52 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Well that's whackAvateur 6/24/11 2:29 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Well that's whackLouis Wu 6/24/11 2:39 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Well that's whackAvateur 6/24/11 2:44 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Well that's whackGeneral Vagueness 6/24/11 5:17 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Well that's whackAvateur 6/24/11 8:47 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Well that's whackLouis Wu 6/24/11 1:04 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Well that's whackCody Miller 6/24/11 2:07 p.m.
                                         Re: Well that's whackNarcogen 6/23/11 1:18 a.m.
                                               Re: Well that's whackAvateur 6/23/11 1:46 a.m.
                                               Re: Well that's whackLouis Wu 6/23/11 7:14 a.m.
                                                     Re: Well that's whackNarcogen 6/24/11 1:16 a.m.
                                               Re: Well that's whackGravemind 6/23/11 12:30 p.m.
           Re: Well that's whackFrankie 6/21/11 4:41 p.m.
                 Re: Well that's whackAvateur 6/21/11 4:59 p.m.
                       Re: Well that's whackGravemind 6/21/11 6:21 p.m.
     Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Archilen 6/20/11 8:59 a.m.
           Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Ynation913 6/20/11 10:38 a.m.
     Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Azo 'Galvat 6/20/11 10:54 a.m.
           Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Chewbeccawacca 6/20/11 12:16 p.m.
     Hmmm....Leviathan 6/20/11 11:11 a.m.
           Re: Hmmm....Avateur 6/20/11 12:14 p.m.
                 Re: Hmmm....Leviathan 6/20/11 12:20 p.m.
                       Re: Hmmm....Avateur 6/20/11 12:40 p.m.
                             Re: Hmmm....0postmortem0 6/20/11 12:55 p.m.
                                   Re: Hmmm....Avateur 6/20/11 1:02 p.m.
                                   Re: Hmmm....Leisandir 6/20/11 1:45 p.m.
                                         Re: Hmmm....Louis Wu 6/20/11 2:03 p.m.
                                               Re: Hmmm....Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/20/11 5:26 p.m.
                                                     Re: Hmmm....Louis Wu 6/20/11 5:42 p.m.
                                                           Re: Hmmm....Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 6/20/11 6:19 p.m.
                                   Re: Hmmm....scarab 6/20/11 3:05 p.m.
                                         Re: Hmmm....0postmortem0 6/20/11 5:25 p.m.
                                               Re: Hmmm....scarab 6/21/11 1:04 a.m.
     Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!Cody Miller 6/20/11 5:58 p.m.
           Re: People have forgotten the Geashotshot revan 6/21/11 5:12 a.m.
           Re: Hear guilty spark speak in HCE:A!General Vagueness 6/21/11 8:06 p.m.



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