the best part...


	/-/S'pht-Translator-Active/-/

the best part...

Posted By: Anaphiel Date: 9/6/04 6:57 a.m.
In Response To: Re: jeez guys... (Adam Ashwell)

...about using Doom 3 is it has the same straight-outta-1993 monster AI that the original Doom and Marathon have: monsters either run right at you or shoot at where you were two seconds ago ;-)
You can basically swap monster skins: imps become fighters, cacodemons become juggernauts, Z-Sec marines as troopers, those stupid rocket-launching skeletons as hunters... I can see it now! Hell, Doom 3 even has those exploding spider thingies.
In all seriousness, when the M:R team would debate over what elements of Marathon to change and what to leave the same, I would always try to think about Marathon features in this way: what was an intentional design feature, and what was just a limitation of the technology? In my opinion, the simple level geometry, small textures, lighting limitations, etc. were all limitations of the available technology. If the original Marathon team had access to today's technology, they would have used it to the hilt, and it probably wouldn't have changed the core gameplay experience very much.
Monster AI also was certainly limited by existing technology, and you could argue that Bungie would have made the Pfhor a lot smarter if they could have. I do however have sympathy for the idea that improved AI would alter the gameplay experience a lot. Even the relatively minor changes made for M:R make the game feel and play very differently. Again, it's probably a judgement call whether this would be a bad thing or a good thing.
I don't think that M1A1 or M:R claim to be "the new standard version of M1" any more than id is saying that Doom3 somehow replaces Doom. I think id view it as the game they would have made if the technology of the times allowed them to, and that's how I look at both M1A1 and M:R. Both projects take a great game and remove some of the limitations of the original. If you overhaul too much, you have a completely different game, that is true. But I personally don't think that's bad. With luck and skill the new version could be even better than the old version, while the old version would still remain a classic. Making a new version does not diminish the old version.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

E0... Me_43 9/4/04 3:08 p.m.

Re: E0... Simon of team Sigma 9/4/04 6:22 p.m.

Would Aleph "integration" be possible? *NM* Mista_B 9/4/04 7:25 p.m.

It's Engine/Zero. And yes, but not yet *NM* Me_43 9/4/04 9:26 p.m.

Re: E0... Adam Ashwell 9/5/04 2:14 a.m.

Re: E0... Me_43 9/5/04 11:39 a.m.

Re: E0... Adam Ashwell 9/5/04 3:21 p.m.

Re: E0... Me_43 9/5/04 5:48 p.m.

Re: E0... Little Kago 9/5/04 12:11 p.m.

Re: E0... Steve Levinson 9/5/04 1:47 p.m.

Re: E0... Little Kago 9/5/04 5:37 p.m.

Re: E0... Adam Ashwell 9/6/04 3:15 a.m.

Re: E0... Simon of team Sigma 9/6/04 4:06 a.m.

jeez guys... Anaphiel 9/6/04 5:00 a.m.

Re: jeez guys... Adam Ashwell 9/6/04 5:08 a.m.

the best part... Anaphiel 9/6/04 6:57 a.m.

Re: the best part... a disreputable source 9/6/04 7:09 a.m.

Re: the best part... Johannes Gunnar 9/6/04 2:04 p.m.

Re: the best part... Speaker-To-Animals 9/6/04 7:35 p.m.

Re: the best part... a disreputable source 9/6/04 8:01 p.m.

Re: jeez guys... Me_43 9/6/04 2:42 p.m.

Re: E0... a disreputable source 9/6/04 7:10 a.m.

Re: E0... Anaphiel 9/6/04 7:28 a.m.

Re: E0... Simon of team Sigma 9/6/04 7:39 a.m.

Re: E0... Adam Ashwell 9/6/04 7:42 a.m.

Re: E0... D-M.A. 9/6/04 11:13 a.m.

Re: E0... Speaker-To-Animals 9/6/04 7:40 p.m.

Re: E0... a disreputable source 9/7/04 6:24 a.m.

Re: E0... a disreputable source 9/7/04 6:34 a.m.

Re: E0... D-M.A. 9/7/04 6:55 a.m.

Re: E0... Adam Ashwell 9/7/04 9:49 a.m.

Re: E0... Steve Levinson 9/7/04 7:07 a.m.

Re: E0... a disreputable source 9/7/04 1:20 p.m.

Re: E0... Lt Devon 9/5/04 2:40 p.m.

Re: E0... Speaker-To-Animals 9/6/04 7:42 p.m.

What do you mean no one is working on AO?! Steve Levinson 9/6/04 8:09 p.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! Speaker-To-Animals 9/6/04 8:47 p.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! goran 9/7/04 1:08 p.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! Steve Levinson 9/7/04 1:51 p.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! blake37 9/7/04 3:20 p.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! Johannes Gunnar 9/8/04 2:18 a.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! D-M.A. 9/7/04 9:25 p.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! goran 9/8/04 12:42 a.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! Traxis-Spawn 9/8/04 12:22 a.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! Adam Ashwell 9/8/04 1:00 a.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! goran 9/8/04 1:17 a.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! *NM* Adam Ashwell 9/8/04 1:28 a.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! D-M.A. 9/8/04 3:12 a.m.

LOL! *NM* Johannes Gunnar 9/8/04 3:55 a.m.

It�s not often I use this word, but... deathmonger 9/8/04 6:33 a.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! Traxis-Spawn 9/8/04 10:45 a.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! goran 9/8/04 1:02 p.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! Traxis-Spawn 9/8/04 10:11 p.m.

Icelandic for beginners. Johannes Gunnar 9/8/04 2:24 a.m.

Re: Icelandic for beginners. D-M.A. 9/8/04 3:07 a.m.

Re: Icelandic for beginners. Johannes Gunnar 9/8/04 3:51 a.m.

Re: Icelandic for beginners. D-M.A. 9/8/04 6:43 a.m.

My hijacked thread has been hijacked! *NM* Steve Levinson 9/8/04 7:16 a.m.

Thats what ya get... Traxis-Spawn 9/8/04 10:47 a.m.

Re: Icelandic for beginners. Johannes Gunnar 9/8/04 11:44 a.m.

Re: Icelandic for beginners. Adam Ashwell 9/8/04 11:47 a.m.

Re: Dutch for beginners �M 9/8/04 12:14 p.m.

Re: Dutch for beginners Adam Ashwell 9/8/04 12:19 p.m.

Re: Dutch for beginners Forrest of B.org 9/8/04 4:01 p.m.

Re: Dutch for beginners Adam Ashwell 9/8/04 4:10 p.m.

Re: Dutch for beginners Steve Levinson 9/8/04 6:44 p.m.

Re: Dutch for beginners Forrest of B.org 9/8/04 6:54 p.m.

Re: Dutch for beginners Yossarian 9/8/04 1:03 p.m.

Re: Dutch for beginners D-M.A. 9/8/04 7:17 p.m.

Re: Dutch for beginners Johannes Gunnar 9/9/04 3:46 a.m.

Re: Dutch for beginners D-M.A. 9/9/04 5:59 a.m.

Re: Dutch for beginners Johannes Gunnar 9/9/04 7:42 a.m.

Re: Dutch for beginners D-M.A. 9/10/04 3:26 a.m.

How about Japanese/Chinese Steve Levinson 9/9/04 7:11 a.m.

Re: How about Japanese/Chinese Jacke 9/9/04 2:44 p.m.

Finnish for beginners Vid Boi 9/10/04 4:35 a.m.

Re: Finnish for beginners D-M.A. 9/10/04 4:47 a.m.

Re: Finnish for beginners Forrest of B.org 9/10/04 7:18 a.m.

oMgZoRz! *NM* Johannes Gunnar 9/10/04 9:27 a.m.

Re: Icelandic for beginners. �M 9/8/04 11:57 a.m.

Re: Icelandic for beginners. Steve Levinson 9/8/04 12:18 p.m.

you should visit iceland sometime. :-) *NM* Johannes Gunnar 9/9/04 4:28 a.m.

It's on the list (for more than a 2AM stopover) *NM* Steve Levinson 9/9/04 7:00 a.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! Simon of team Sigma 9/8/04 7:00 a.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! Adam Ashwell 9/8/04 9:57 a.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! Simon of team Sigma 9/8/04 10:47 a.m.

Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! Yossarian 9/8/04 8:11 a.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: ...about using Doom 3 is it has the same straight-outta-1993 monster AI that : the original Doom and Marathon have: monsters either run right at you or : shoot at where you were two seconds ago ;-) : You can basically swap monster skins: imps become fighters, cacodemons become : juggernauts, Z-Sec marines as troopers, those stupid rocket-launching : skeletons as hunters... I can see it now! Hell, Doom 3 even has those : exploding spider thingies. : In all seriousness, when the M:R team would debate over what elements of : Marathon to change and what to leave the same, I would always try to think : about Marathon features in this way: what was an intentional design : feature, and what was just a limitation of the technology? In my opinion, : the simple level geometry, small textures, lighting limitations, etc. were : all limitations of the available technology. If the original Marathon team : had access to today's technology, they would have used it to the hilt, and : it probably wouldn't have changed the core gameplay experience very much. : Monster AI also was certainly limited by existing technology, and you could : argue that Bungie would have made the Pfhor a lot smarter if they could : have. I do however have sympathy for the idea that improved AI would alter : the gameplay experience a lot. Even the relatively minor changes made for : M:R make the game feel and play very differently. Again, it's probably a : judgement call whether this would be a bad thing or a good thing. : I don't think that M1A1 or M:R claim to be "the new standard version of : M1" any more than id is saying that Doom3 somehow replaces Doom. I : think id view it as the game they would have made if the technology of the : times allowed them to, and that's how I look at both M1A1 and M:R. Both : projects take a great game and remove some of the limitations of the : original. If you overhaul too much, you have a completely different game, : that is true. But I personally don't think that's bad. With luck and skill : the new version could be even better than the old version, while the old : version would still remain a classic. Making a new version does not : diminish the old version.

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E0...	Me_43	9/4/04 3:08 p.m.
Re: E0...	Simon of team Sigma	9/4/04 6:22 p.m.
Would Aleph "integration" be possible? NM	Mista_B	9/4/04 7:25 p.m.
It's Engine/Zero. And yes, but not yet NM	Me_43	9/4/04 9:26 p.m.
Re: E0...	Adam Ashwell	9/5/04 2:14 a.m.
Re: E0...	Me_43	9/5/04 11:39 a.m.
Re: E0...	Adam Ashwell	9/5/04 3:21 p.m.
Re: E0...	Me_43	9/5/04 5:48 p.m.
Re: E0...	Little Kago	9/5/04 12:11 p.m.
Re: E0...	Steve Levinson	9/5/04 1:47 p.m.
Re: E0...	Little Kago	9/5/04 5:37 p.m.
Re: E0...	Adam Ashwell	9/6/04 3:15 a.m.
Re: E0...	Simon of team Sigma	9/6/04 4:06 a.m.
jeez guys...	Anaphiel	9/6/04 5:00 a.m.
Re: jeez guys...	Adam Ashwell	9/6/04 5:08 a.m.
the best part...	Anaphiel	9/6/04 6:57 a.m.
Re: the best part...	a disreputable source	9/6/04 7:09 a.m.
Re: the best part...	Johannes Gunnar	9/6/04 2:04 p.m.
Re: the best part...	Speaker-To-Animals	9/6/04 7:35 p.m.
Re: the best part...	a disreputable source	9/6/04 8:01 p.m.
Re: jeez guys...	Me_43	9/6/04 2:42 p.m.
Re: E0...	a disreputable source	9/6/04 7:10 a.m.
Re: E0...	Anaphiel	9/6/04 7:28 a.m.
Re: E0...	Simon of team Sigma	9/6/04 7:39 a.m.
Re: E0...	Adam Ashwell	9/6/04 7:42 a.m.
Re: E0...	D-M.A.	9/6/04 11:13 a.m.
Re: E0...	Speaker-To-Animals	9/6/04 7:40 p.m.
Re: E0...	a disreputable source	9/7/04 6:24 a.m.
Re: E0...	a disreputable source	9/7/04 6:34 a.m.
Re: E0...	D-M.A.	9/7/04 6:55 a.m.
Re: E0...	Adam Ashwell	9/7/04 9:49 a.m.
Re: E0...	Steve Levinson	9/7/04 7:07 a.m.
Re: E0...	a disreputable source	9/7/04 1:20 p.m.
Re: E0...	Lt Devon	9/5/04 2:40 p.m.
Re: E0...	Speaker-To-Animals	9/6/04 7:42 p.m.
What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	Steve Levinson	9/6/04 8:09 p.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	Speaker-To-Animals	9/6/04 8:47 p.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	goran	9/7/04 1:08 p.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	Steve Levinson	9/7/04 1:51 p.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	blake37	9/7/04 3:20 p.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	Johannes Gunnar	9/8/04 2:18 a.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	D-M.A.	9/7/04 9:25 p.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	goran	9/8/04 12:42 a.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	Traxis-Spawn	9/8/04 12:22 a.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	Adam Ashwell	9/8/04 1:00 a.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	goran	9/8/04 1:17 a.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?! NM	Adam Ashwell	9/8/04 1:28 a.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	D-M.A.	9/8/04 3:12 a.m.
LOL! NM	Johannes Gunnar	9/8/04 3:55 a.m.
It�s not often I use this word, but...	deathmonger	9/8/04 6:33 a.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	Traxis-Spawn	9/8/04 10:45 a.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	goran	9/8/04 1:02 p.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	Traxis-Spawn	9/8/04 10:11 p.m.
Icelandic for beginners.	Johannes Gunnar	9/8/04 2:24 a.m.
Re: Icelandic for beginners.	D-M.A.	9/8/04 3:07 a.m.
Re: Icelandic for beginners.	Johannes Gunnar	9/8/04 3:51 a.m.
Re: Icelandic for beginners.	D-M.A.	9/8/04 6:43 a.m.
My hijacked thread has been hijacked! NM	Steve Levinson	9/8/04 7:16 a.m.
Thats what ya get...	Traxis-Spawn	9/8/04 10:47 a.m.
Re: Icelandic for beginners.	Johannes Gunnar	9/8/04 11:44 a.m.
Re: Icelandic for beginners.	Adam Ashwell	9/8/04 11:47 a.m.
Re: Dutch for beginners	�M	9/8/04 12:14 p.m.
Re: Dutch for beginners	Adam Ashwell	9/8/04 12:19 p.m.
Re: Dutch for beginners	Forrest of B.org	9/8/04 4:01 p.m.
Re: Dutch for beginners	Adam Ashwell	9/8/04 4:10 p.m.
Re: Dutch for beginners	Steve Levinson	9/8/04 6:44 p.m.
Re: Dutch for beginners	Forrest of B.org	9/8/04 6:54 p.m.
Re: Dutch for beginners	Yossarian	9/8/04 1:03 p.m.
Re: Dutch for beginners	D-M.A.	9/8/04 7:17 p.m.
Re: Dutch for beginners	Johannes Gunnar	9/9/04 3:46 a.m.
Re: Dutch for beginners	D-M.A.	9/9/04 5:59 a.m.
Re: Dutch for beginners	Johannes Gunnar	9/9/04 7:42 a.m.
Re: Dutch for beginners	D-M.A.	9/10/04 3:26 a.m.
How about Japanese/Chinese	Steve Levinson	9/9/04 7:11 a.m.
Re: How about Japanese/Chinese	Jacke	9/9/04 2:44 p.m.
Finnish for beginners	Vid Boi	9/10/04 4:35 a.m.
Re: Finnish for beginners	D-M.A.	9/10/04 4:47 a.m.
Re: Finnish for beginners	Forrest of B.org	9/10/04 7:18 a.m.
oMgZoRz! NM	Johannes Gunnar	9/10/04 9:27 a.m.
Re: Icelandic for beginners.	�M	9/8/04 11:57 a.m.
Re: Icelandic for beginners.	Steve Levinson	9/8/04 12:18 p.m.
you should visit iceland sometime. :-) NM	Johannes Gunnar	9/9/04 4:28 a.m.
It's on the list (for more than a 2AM stopover) NM	Steve Levinson	9/9/04 7:00 a.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	Simon of team Sigma	9/8/04 7:00 a.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	Adam Ashwell	9/8/04 9:57 a.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	Simon of team Sigma	9/8/04 10:47 a.m.
Re: What do you mean no one is working on AO?!	Yossarian	9/8/04 8:11 a.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : ...about using Doom 3 is it has the same straight-outta-1993 monster AI that : the original Doom and Marathon have: monsters either run right at you or : shoot at where you were two seconds ago ;-) : You can basically swap monster skins: imps become fighters, cacodemons become : juggernauts, Z-Sec marines as troopers, those stupid rocket-launching : skeletons as hunters... I can see it now! Hell, Doom 3 even has those : exploding spider thingies. : In all seriousness, when the M:R team would debate over what elements of : Marathon to change and what to leave the same, I would always try to think : about Marathon features in this way: what was an intentional design : feature, and what was just a limitation of the technology? In my opinion, : the simple level geometry, small textures, lighting limitations, etc. were : all limitations of the available technology. If the original Marathon team : had access to today's technology, they would have used it to the hilt, and : it probably wouldn't have changed the core gameplay experience very much. : Monster AI also was certainly limited by existing technology, and you could : argue that Bungie would have made the Pfhor a lot smarter if they could : have. I do however have sympathy for the idea that improved AI would alter : the gameplay experience a lot. Even the relatively minor changes made for : M:R make the game feel and play very differently. Again, it's probably a : judgement call whether this would be a bad thing or a good thing. : I don't think that M1A1 or M:R claim to be "the new standard version of : M1" any more than id is saying that Doom3 somehow replaces Doom. I : think id view it as the game they would have made if the technology of the : times allowed them to, and that's how I look at both M1A1 and M:R. Both : projects take a great game and remove some of the limitations of the : original. If you overhaul too much, you have a completely different game, : that is true. But I personally don't think that's bad. With luck and skill : the new version could be even better than the old version, while the old : version would still remain a classic. Making a new version does not : diminish the old version.
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