Re: Spirituality vs Rationality


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Re: Spirituality vs Rationality

Posted By: MrHen Date: 8/13/05 10:42 p.m.
In Response To: Spirituality vs Rationality (Forrest of B.org)

: I'm curious how you would define rational and spiritual.
My opinions are at the bottom, but first...
: The most abstract and inclusive definitions I can think of, and thus prefer
: to use, are: Rationality is seeking to build model(s) of reality and/or
: morality in explicit, reasoned, bottom-up terms... looking at the small
: pieces first, making sure they're right, because they logically have to
: be, and then blindly assembling them to get whatever conclusion you reach,
: with no particular end in sight. It's the approach of using your logic, as
: opposed to your feelings.
In other words, taking what you experience and figuring out the bigger picture. Such as noticing it gets dark every time the sun disappears so the sun must be what produces the light (or, more accurately, lack of sun implies lack of light).
Using your analogy below, the bricks are experiences. Is that what you are saying?
: Spirituality, on the other hand, is seeking to build model(s) of reality
: and/or morality in implicit, intuitive, top-up terms... you can see the
: ends, you know they're right, you can feel it, but you don't necessarily
: know why they are right or how you reached those conclusions. It's the
: approach of using your feelings, as opposed to your logic.
An example of this would be the belief that you are not alone in this world. You assume there are other people just like you but you basically "feel" it and know such a belief is correct. It is something that appears obvious by nature.
The balloons would be the "duh" of life. Things you assume because it would appear ludicrous to think otherwise.
At this point I can sort of see why you think rationality and spirituality are alike. In your view they are identical. One is based off of sense perception and logic the other is based off of "feelings" or just another form of perception. Both are based entirely off of your perceptions of reality. Unless I'm misunderstanding you...
: The (somewhat humorous) metaphor that comes to mind is building a tower out
: of bricks and balloons.
In your analogy I don't understand what the balloons are for. It seems all the balloons end up is a goal or a pot-shot guess at the surprise ending of life. Wouldn't it make more sense to just watch and see where the bricks end up?
: But [the balloons are] up there, high and inspiring, and someday we'll
: find a way of building up to that height.
: Beliefs are inspiring and guiding; theories are stable and
: supportive; and both are indispensable.
In your view it seems as if spirituality is merely a crutch for those who can't handle how slow the bricks move. It's nothing more than a feel-good mechanism which could theoretically be discarded if you were strong enough.

My opinion is that spirituality is where your basic assumptions and building blocks come from and rationality is what you get by logically progressing those presuppositions.
Spirituality is both Religion and Philosophy.
Rationality is both Science and Theology.
Believing that people you meet are actually real people and not a figment of your imagination is a philosophical belief (spirituality), one which cannot be proven.
Believing that you should treat other people with kindness is a religious belief (spirituality), one which cannot be proven.
Believing that you should treat all people you meet who appear real with kindness is a theological belief (rationality due to both philosophy and religion), one which results from a logical conclusion of "spiritual" beliefs.
Believing that people procreate and produce other people is a scientific (rationality due to philosophy), one that bases itself off of a great many more assumptions than I have time to lay out.

I realize calling all of these assumptions "spiritual" is a little controversial but I don't really see another word for it. Spirituality is basically faith is something you cannot prove and this happens to include most of the beliefs we don't even make a decision on.

If I had to convert my opinions on this into your brick/balloon analogy the spiritual beliefs would be the bricks and the process of building something out of them rationality. There wouldn't be any balloons.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Marathon Pfhor D-M.A. 8/2/05 6:01 a.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor John Molloy 8/2/05 6:41 a.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Vid Boi 8/2/05 9:33 a.m.

tBC's and Frigidman's replies are kinda intriguin *NM* D-M.A. 8/2/05 10:49 a.m.

Yeah, maybe. *NM* Bob-B-Q 8/2/05 11:35 a.m.

that's what i would have done MrHen 8/2/05 2:07 p.m.

Re: that's what i would have done Vid Boi 8/2/05 11:48 p.m.

It's not dead, it's 11 pages long and counting! *NM* D-M.A. 8/2/05 11:54 p.m.

11 pages long, counting, and not about 'Thon... *NM* Vid Boi 8/4/05 1:48 a.m.

*sigh* I'll never get a PC Forge... *NM* reagan64 8/5/05 6:14 p.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Reiginko 8/3/05 5:31 a.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor D-M.A. 8/3/05 6:01 a.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Ori 8/3/05 6:33 a.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Jacke 8/3/05 10:47 a.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor John Molloy 8/3/05 1:17 p.m.

ehh... MrHen 8/3/05 1:57 p.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor D-M.A. 8/3/05 6:06 p.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor John Molloy 8/3/05 6:32 p.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Forrest of B.org 8/3/05 6:59 p.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor John Molloy 8/3/05 7:06 p.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Vid Boi 8/4/05 2:15 a.m.

Someone thinks I'm bright! Happy joy joy :-) *NM* D-M.A. 8/4/05 3:53 a.m.

if by all men... MrHen 8/4/05 4:55 a.m.

Re: if by all men... Forrest of B.org 8/4/05 6:01 p.m.

I'm curious - are *you* in that photo, Forrest? *NM* Steve Levinson 8/4/05 7:18 p.m.

Re: I'm curious - are *you* in that photo, Forrest Forrest of B.org 8/4/05 8:43 p.m.

Re: I'm curious - are *you* in that photo, Forrest D-M.A. 8/4/05 11:09 p.m.

Re: I'm curious - are *you* in that photo, Forrest Forrest of B.org 8/5/05 7:57 a.m.

Re: I'm curious - are *you* in that photo, Forrest John Molloy 8/5/05 2:28 p.m.

Re: I'm curious - are *you* in that photo, Forrest Forrest of B.org 8/6/05 10:07 p.m.

Re: I'm curious - are *you* in that photo, Forrest John Molloy 8/6/05 11:42 p.m.

Re: I'm curious - are *you* in that photo, Forrest Johannes Gunnar 8/7/05 12:31 a.m.

Re: I'm curious - are *you* in that photo, Forrest Johannes Gunnar 8/7/05 12:31 a.m.

Re: I'm curious - are *you* in that photo, Forrest Vid Boi 8/7/05 12:49 a.m.

Re: I'm curious - are *you* in that photo, Forrest Andrew Nagy 8/8/05 6:46 a.m.

Off! Weirdness... *NM* Vid Boi 8/8/05 4:10 p.m.

I like the fishnets Forrest blake37 8/5/05 3:06 a.m.

LOL! i like your outfit Forrest! :P *NM* Johannes Gunnar 8/5/05 4:32 a.m.

Re: if by all men... Vid Boi 8/7/05 12:56 a.m.

I hate that term. MrHen 8/7/05 6:15 a.m.

Re: I hate that term. Steve Levinson 8/7/05 10:45 a.m.

agreed MrHen 8/8/05 5:01 a.m.

Re: agreed Steve Levinson 8/8/05 6:03 a.m.

Re: agreed blake37 8/8/05 6:50 a.m.

Re: agreed Steve Levinson 8/8/05 8:14 a.m.

Re: agreed MrHen 8/8/05 10:26 a.m.

Re: agreed blake37 8/8/05 4:03 p.m.

Re: agreed Vid Boi 8/8/05 4:32 p.m.

haha, yeah... MrHen 8/8/05 5:39 p.m.

Re: haha, yeah... Tyler 8/9/05 6:41 a.m.

ah, okay MrHen 8/8/05 9:59 a.m.

Re: I hate that term. Dylan 8/9/05 4:28 a.m.

uh... now i'm confused... MrHen 8/9/05 5:17 a.m.

Re: uh... now i'm confused... Dylan 8/9/05 8:59 a.m.

hating terminals? *gasp!* MrHen 8/9/05 9:23 a.m.

Re: uh... now i'm confused... AlfredMordeir 8/9/05 7:00 p.m.

Re: uh... now i'm confused... MrHen 8/10/05 4:52 a.m.

Re: uh... now i'm confused... Dylan 8/11/05 4:39 a.m.

I usually don't copy articles but, Oh well. AlfredMordeir 8/11/05 8:54 a.m.

Social Darwinism Dave 8/10/05 2:53 a.m.

more on social darwinism MrHen 8/10/05 5:10 a.m.

Re: more on social darwinism Reiginko 8/10/05 6:47 a.m.

Ohh... MrHen 8/10/05 8:46 a.m.

Re: more on social darwinism Vid Boi 8/10/05 11:40 a.m.

Haha, that's terrible. *NM* MrHen 8/11/05 5:05 a.m.

Re: more on social darwinism MrHen 8/11/05 5:19 a.m.

Re: more on social darwinism Dave 8/11/05 7:10 a.m.

Re: more on social darwinism Reiginko 8/11/05 7:49 a.m.

god of the gaps MrHen 8/11/05 8:32 a.m.

Re: more on social darwinism Forrest of B.org 8/11/05 9:19 a.m.

Re: more on social darwinism Forrest of B.org 8/11/05 9:17 a.m.

not a fan of the link MrHen 8/12/05 12:56 p.m.

Re: not a fan of the link Forrest of B.org 8/12/05 1:16 p.m.

meh MrHen 8/12/05 2:24 p.m.

Spirituality vs Rationality Forrest of B.org 8/12/05 3:34 p.m.

Re: Spirituality vs Rationality MrHen 8/13/05 10:42 p.m.

Re: more on social darwinism Ben A. Potter 8/11/05 11:20 a.m.

truth MrHen 8/12/05 12:05 p.m.

Re: truth Ben A. Potter 8/12/05 12:40 p.m.

agreed MrHen 8/12/05 1:01 p.m.

Re: more on social darwinism Ben A. Potter 8/10/05 9:04 a.m.

Re: more on social darwinism Steve Levinson 8/10/05 12:25 p.m.

Re: more on social darwinism Ben A. Potter 8/10/05 1:12 p.m.

Re: more on social darwinism Dave 8/10/05 6:35 p.m.

Re: Social Darwinism Dylan 8/11/05 5:02 a.m.

Creationism MrHen 8/11/05 5:15 a.m.

Re: Social Darwinism Ben A. Potter 8/11/05 11:10 a.m.

Re: Social Darwinism Enkidu 8/11/05 4:20 p.m.

"Fundamentalists" and slippery-slopes MrHen 8/9/05 5:27 a.m.

Has anybody noticed.... blake37 8/9/05 7:06 a.m.

and talk about off-topic . . . *NM* Steve Levinson 8/9/05 7:30 a.m.

:P MrHen 8/9/05 7:52 a.m.

Re: Has anybody noticed.... D-M.A. 8/9/05 7:58 a.m.

Re: "Fundamentalists" and slippery-slopes Vid Boi 8/10/05 11:53 a.m.

Re: "Fundamentalists" and slippery-slopes blake37 8/10/05 12:53 p.m.

oops... *blushes* *NM* MrHen 8/11/05 5:16 a.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Forrest of B.org 8/3/05 6:54 p.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor John Molloy 8/3/05 7:02 p.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Forrest of B.org 8/3/05 7:13 p.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor John Molloy 8/3/05 7:20 p.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Forrest of B.org 8/3/05 7:40 p.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Reiginko 8/4/05 12:19 a.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Vid Boi 8/4/05 2:19 a.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Forrest of B.org 8/4/05 6:19 p.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Reiginko 8/5/05 6:57 a.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Forrest of B.org 8/5/05 8:14 a.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Vid Boi 8/4/05 2:24 a.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor MrHen 8/4/05 5:06 a.m.

oh... that makes much more sense... MrHen 8/4/05 5:11 a.m.

Re: oh... that makes much more sense... Steve Levinson 8/4/05 1:04 p.m.

Rumor update ukimalefu 8/4/05 7:49 p.m.

Re: Rumor update RedMage13 8/5/05 3:49 p.m.

Re: Marathon Pfhor Andrew Nagy 8/8/05 7:53 a.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
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Message:
: My opinions are at the bottom, but first... : In other words, taking what you experience and figuring out the bigger : picture. Such as noticing it gets dark every time the sun disappears so : the sun must be what produces the light (or, more accurately, lack of sun : implies lack of light). : Using your analogy below, the bricks are experiences. Is that what you are : saying? : An example of this would be the belief that you are not alone in this world. : You assume there are other people just like you but you basically : "feel" it and know such a belief is correct. It is something : that appears obvious by nature. : The balloons would be the "duh" of life. Things you assume because : it would appear ludicrous to think otherwise. : At this point I can sort of see why you think rationality and spirituality : are alike. In your view they are identical. One is based off of sense : perception and logic the other is based off of "feelings" or : just another form of perception. Both are based entirely off of your : perceptions of reality. Unless I'm misunderstanding you... : In your analogy I don't understand what the balloons are for. It seems all : the balloons end up is a goal or a pot-shot guess at the surprise ending : of life. Wouldn't it make more sense to just watch and see where the : bricks end up? : In your view it seems as if spirituality is merely a crutch for those who : can't handle how slow the bricks move. It's nothing more than a feel-good : mechanism which could theoretically be discarded if you were strong : enough. : : My opinion is that spirituality is where your basic assumptions and building : blocks come from and rationality is what you get by logically progressing : those presuppositions. : Spirituality is both Religion and Philosophy. : Rationality is both Science and Theology. : Believing that people you meet are actually real people and not a figment of : your imagination is a philosophical belief (spirituality), one which : cannot be proven. : Believing that you should treat other people with kindness is a religious : belief (spirituality), one which cannot be proven. : Believing that you should treat all people you meet who appear real with : kindness is a theological belief (rationality due to both philosophy and : religion), one which results from a logical conclusion of : "spiritual" beliefs. : Believing that people procreate and produce other people is a scientific : (rationality due to philosophy), one that bases itself off of a great many : more assumptions than I have time to lay out. : : I realize calling all of these assumptions "spiritual" is a little : controversial but I don't really see another word for it. Spirituality is : basically faith is something you cannot prove and this happens to include : most of the beliefs we don't even make a decision on. : : If I had to convert my opinions on this into your brick/balloon analogy the : spiritual beliefs would be the bricks and the process of building : something out of them rationality. There wouldn't be any balloons.

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Marathon Pfhor	D-M.A.	8/2/05 6:01 a.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	John Molloy	8/2/05 6:41 a.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Vid Boi	8/2/05 9:33 a.m.
tBC's and Frigidman's replies are kinda intriguin NM	D-M.A.	8/2/05 10:49 a.m.
Yeah, maybe. NM	Bob-B-Q	8/2/05 11:35 a.m.
that's what i would have done	MrHen	8/2/05 2:07 p.m.
Re: that's what i would have done	Vid Boi	8/2/05 11:48 p.m.
It's not dead, it's 11 pages long and counting! NM	D-M.A.	8/2/05 11:54 p.m.
11 pages long, counting, and not about 'Thon... NM	Vid Boi	8/4/05 1:48 a.m.
sigh I'll never get a PC Forge... NM	reagan64	8/5/05 6:14 p.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Reiginko	8/3/05 5:31 a.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	D-M.A.	8/3/05 6:01 a.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Ori	8/3/05 6:33 a.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Jacke	8/3/05 10:47 a.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	John Molloy	8/3/05 1:17 p.m.
ehh...	MrHen	8/3/05 1:57 p.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	D-M.A.	8/3/05 6:06 p.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	John Molloy	8/3/05 6:32 p.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Forrest of B.org	8/3/05 6:59 p.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	John Molloy	8/3/05 7:06 p.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Vid Boi	8/4/05 2:15 a.m.
Someone thinks I'm bright! Happy joy joy :-) NM	D-M.A.	8/4/05 3:53 a.m.
if by all men...	MrHen	8/4/05 4:55 a.m.
Re: if by all men...	Forrest of B.org	8/4/05 6:01 p.m.
I'm curious - are you in that photo, Forrest? NM	Steve Levinson	8/4/05 7:18 p.m.
Re: I'm curious - are you in that photo, Forrest	Forrest of B.org	8/4/05 8:43 p.m.
Re: I'm curious - are you in that photo, Forrest	D-M.A.	8/4/05 11:09 p.m.
Re: I'm curious - are you in that photo, Forrest	Forrest of B.org	8/5/05 7:57 a.m.
Re: I'm curious - are you in that photo, Forrest	John Molloy	8/5/05 2:28 p.m.
Re: I'm curious - are you in that photo, Forrest	Forrest of B.org	8/6/05 10:07 p.m.
Re: I'm curious - are you in that photo, Forrest	John Molloy	8/6/05 11:42 p.m.
Re: I'm curious - are you in that photo, Forrest	Johannes Gunnar	8/7/05 12:31 a.m.
Re: I'm curious - are you in that photo, Forrest	Johannes Gunnar	8/7/05 12:31 a.m.
Re: I'm curious - are you in that photo, Forrest	Vid Boi	8/7/05 12:49 a.m.
Re: I'm curious - are you in that photo, Forrest	Andrew Nagy	8/8/05 6:46 a.m.
Off! Weirdness... NM	Vid Boi	8/8/05 4:10 p.m.
I like the fishnets Forrest	blake37	8/5/05 3:06 a.m.
LOL! i like your outfit Forrest! :P NM	Johannes Gunnar	8/5/05 4:32 a.m.
Re: if by all men...	Vid Boi	8/7/05 12:56 a.m.
I hate that term.	MrHen	8/7/05 6:15 a.m.
Re: I hate that term.	Steve Levinson	8/7/05 10:45 a.m.
agreed	MrHen	8/8/05 5:01 a.m.
Re: agreed	Steve Levinson	8/8/05 6:03 a.m.
Re: agreed	blake37	8/8/05 6:50 a.m.
Re: agreed	Steve Levinson	8/8/05 8:14 a.m.
Re: agreed	MrHen	8/8/05 10:26 a.m.
Re: agreed	blake37	8/8/05 4:03 p.m.
Re: agreed	Vid Boi	8/8/05 4:32 p.m.
haha, yeah...	MrHen	8/8/05 5:39 p.m.
Re: haha, yeah...	Tyler	8/9/05 6:41 a.m.
ah, okay	MrHen	8/8/05 9:59 a.m.
Re: I hate that term.	Dylan	8/9/05 4:28 a.m.
uh... now i'm confused...	MrHen	8/9/05 5:17 a.m.
Re: uh... now i'm confused...	Dylan	8/9/05 8:59 a.m.
hating terminals? gasp!	MrHen	8/9/05 9:23 a.m.
Re: uh... now i'm confused...	AlfredMordeir	8/9/05 7:00 p.m.
Re: uh... now i'm confused...	MrHen	8/10/05 4:52 a.m.
Re: uh... now i'm confused...	Dylan	8/11/05 4:39 a.m.
I usually don't copy articles but, Oh well.	AlfredMordeir	8/11/05 8:54 a.m.
Social Darwinism	Dave	8/10/05 2:53 a.m.
more on social darwinism	MrHen	8/10/05 5:10 a.m.
Re: more on social darwinism	Reiginko	8/10/05 6:47 a.m.
Ohh...	MrHen	8/10/05 8:46 a.m.
Re: more on social darwinism	Vid Boi	8/10/05 11:40 a.m.
Haha, that's terrible. NM	MrHen	8/11/05 5:05 a.m.
Re: more on social darwinism	MrHen	8/11/05 5:19 a.m.
Re: more on social darwinism	Dave	8/11/05 7:10 a.m.
Re: more on social darwinism	Reiginko	8/11/05 7:49 a.m.
god of the gaps	MrHen	8/11/05 8:32 a.m.
Re: more on social darwinism	Forrest of B.org	8/11/05 9:19 a.m.
Re: more on social darwinism	Forrest of B.org	8/11/05 9:17 a.m.
not a fan of the link	MrHen	8/12/05 12:56 p.m.
Re: not a fan of the link	Forrest of B.org	8/12/05 1:16 p.m.
meh	MrHen	8/12/05 2:24 p.m.
Spirituality vs Rationality	Forrest of B.org	8/12/05 3:34 p.m.
Re: Spirituality vs Rationality	MrHen	8/13/05 10:42 p.m.
Re: more on social darwinism	Ben A. Potter	8/11/05 11:20 a.m.
truth	MrHen	8/12/05 12:05 p.m.
Re: truth	Ben A. Potter	8/12/05 12:40 p.m.
agreed	MrHen	8/12/05 1:01 p.m.
Re: more on social darwinism	Ben A. Potter	8/10/05 9:04 a.m.
Re: more on social darwinism	Steve Levinson	8/10/05 12:25 p.m.
Re: more on social darwinism	Ben A. Potter	8/10/05 1:12 p.m.
Re: more on social darwinism	Dave	8/10/05 6:35 p.m.
Re: Social Darwinism	Dylan	8/11/05 5:02 a.m.
Creationism	MrHen	8/11/05 5:15 a.m.
Re: Social Darwinism	Ben A. Potter	8/11/05 11:10 a.m.
Re: Social Darwinism	Enkidu	8/11/05 4:20 p.m.
"Fundamentalists" and slippery-slopes	MrHen	8/9/05 5:27 a.m.
Has anybody noticed....	blake37	8/9/05 7:06 a.m.
and talk about off-topic . . . NM	Steve Levinson	8/9/05 7:30 a.m.
:P	MrHen	8/9/05 7:52 a.m.
Re: Has anybody noticed....	D-M.A.	8/9/05 7:58 a.m.
Re: "Fundamentalists" and slippery-slopes	Vid Boi	8/10/05 11:53 a.m.
Re: "Fundamentalists" and slippery-slopes	blake37	8/10/05 12:53 p.m.
oops... blushes NM	MrHen	8/11/05 5:16 a.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Forrest of B.org	8/3/05 6:54 p.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	John Molloy	8/3/05 7:02 p.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Forrest of B.org	8/3/05 7:13 p.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	John Molloy	8/3/05 7:20 p.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Forrest of B.org	8/3/05 7:40 p.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Reiginko	8/4/05 12:19 a.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Vid Boi	8/4/05 2:19 a.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Forrest of B.org	8/4/05 6:19 p.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Reiginko	8/5/05 6:57 a.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Forrest of B.org	8/5/05 8:14 a.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Vid Boi	8/4/05 2:24 a.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	MrHen	8/4/05 5:06 a.m.
oh... that makes much more sense...	MrHen	8/4/05 5:11 a.m.
Re: oh... that makes much more sense...	Steve Levinson	8/4/05 1:04 p.m.
Rumor update	ukimalefu	8/4/05 7:49 p.m.
Re: Rumor update	RedMage13	8/5/05 3:49 p.m.
Re: Marathon Pfhor	Andrew Nagy	8/8/05 7:53 a.m.



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	Message: : My opinions are at the bottom, but first... : In other words, taking what you experience and figuring out the bigger : picture. Such as noticing it gets dark every time the sun disappears so : the sun must be what produces the light (or, more accurately, lack of sun : implies lack of light). : Using your analogy below, the bricks are experiences. Is that what you are : saying? : An example of this would be the belief that you are not alone in this world. : You assume there are other people just like you but you basically : "feel" it and know such a belief is correct. It is something : that appears obvious by nature. : The balloons would be the "duh" of life. Things you assume because : it would appear ludicrous to think otherwise. : At this point I can sort of see why you think rationality and spirituality : are alike. In your view they are identical. One is based off of sense : perception and logic the other is based off of "feelings" or : just another form of perception. Both are based entirely off of your : perceptions of reality. Unless I'm misunderstanding you... : In your analogy I don't understand what the balloons are for. It seems all : the balloons end up is a goal or a pot-shot guess at the surprise ending : of life. Wouldn't it make more sense to just watch and see where the : bricks end up? : In your view it seems as if spirituality is merely a crutch for those who : can't handle how slow the bricks move. It's nothing more than a feel-good : mechanism which could theoretically be discarded if you were strong : enough. : : My opinion is that spirituality is where your basic assumptions and building : blocks come from and rationality is what you get by logically progressing : those presuppositions. : Spirituality is both Religion and Philosophy. : Rationality is both Science and Theology. : Believing that people you meet are actually real people and not a figment of : your imagination is a philosophical belief (spirituality), one which : cannot be proven. : Believing that you should treat other people with kindness is a religious : belief (spirituality), one which cannot be proven. : Believing that you should treat all people you meet who appear real with : kindness is a theological belief (rationality due to both philosophy and : religion), one which results from a logical conclusion of : "spiritual" beliefs. : Believing that people procreate and produce other people is a scientific : (rationality due to philosophy), one that bases itself off of a great many : more assumptions than I have time to lay out. : : I realize calling all of these assumptions "spiritual" is a little : controversial but I don't really see another word for it. Spirituality is : basically faith is something you cannot prove and this happens to include : most of the beliefs we don't even make a decision on. : : If I had to convert my opinions on this into your brick/balloon analogy the : spiritual beliefs would be the bricks and the process of building : something out of them rationality. There wouldn't be any balloons.
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