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Press and Gameplay
Posted By: CyberBob =PN=Date: 5/16/00 1:48 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Hyp(ocrit)es Hurt (Xian)

> Certainly, but your arguments aren't much better....

No reason to attack anybody.

> Exactly, you just nulled your previous statements. So what
> exactly do you want from it? You're faulting the Press for being
> the Press? It would be nice if it was an objective information
> dispersing agency that worked towards informing us all (or
> better- apparently- if it always agreed with you)... but those
> days are long over for the large majority of newscasts,
> publications, & websites. You suddenly want one guy at a
> fansite to be the pillar of what the Press should be? Wake up!
> The womanizing, drooling, swag gathering folks at E3 are our
> press!

Only one small thing to add, it is the press who hypes Bungie and then "de-hypes" Bungie for not meeting their expectations. Bungie always tries to keep information back, they do not say: "Hey, come-on write something for us." Normally it is a Magazine that says "Hey give us a few shots and we will write a review." If it is your point that the press is at fault then I agree with you, if your point is though that the press does that because they have no other choice of getting more news on account of the lack of information Bungie provides, I still agree with you, but if you think that HALO is over hyped because of Bungie starting the Hype then I wholeheartedly have to disagree.

> Also, I hardly believe Halo's game play is on the shakey ground
> you portray it to be...

Actually it is for us and all others. We have not seen what Bungie did behind closed doors on their LAN and we will not get any evidence on game play until we have a demo, or at least until HALO is in beta, because then not friends will compete in multi (the part that interests you most), but strangers... Then the real game play comes up yes. Although we can see from the movie what game play Bungie intended.

> Yeah. It did. You have a very odd definition of
> "gameplay" if you think otherwise.

Game play or how the game plays for the player is very subjective. Narco meant that Quake literally had no game play, but the game played in a manner other people found game play.

> Better zip that up your bias is showing. The
> "twitchfest" you refer it is exactly where the id
> shooter's gameplay lies.

Yes, and he found that this was not the way a game has to be played (falls under the category game play and since the word "gameplay" does not exist yet, everybody can define game play for himself. I know that it in your opinion "gameplay" is defined by the way a game is played from the players perspective, but his view is that "game play" is not only this, but also the very subjective "fun factor" which is not in your (and most other) definitions of game play. Thus for him Quake is a boring colorless game where reflexes are more important then thinking, there is no game play there for him (and for me either), but it can be defined as "gameplay."

> Meanwhile, many fundamental specifics
> on Halo's gameplay are nowhere to be found.

Actually they can be found but they have not been shown.

> And that's what is
> in important to MANY gamers. The scripted sequences can be
> dramatic, the engine powerful, the graphics gorgeous, the models
> stylish, the story grand, and the idea/design sound... but IF IT
> PLAYS LIKE CRAP it's not an action game, much less a good one.
> Gamers are supposed to care about gameplay. If you think all
> that stuff can cover for bad gameplay or if you think all that
> equals gameplay... there's no point talking to you anymore.

If it plays like crap for whom is the question. To stay in a community where there are many parallels, lets take Marathon and Myth, I know some players who loved Marathon, but never got into Myth, because their definition of gameplay was that Myth had none for them. On the other hand I know some Mythers who despise of Marathon, even if it is one of the best (game play wise) twitch- shooters around. And then there are those who would love to see a combination of those two games because they miss game play- elements of the other in those titles. It is a questions for whom they create the game and the answer is for themselves, so we can expect a game that plays for close teams who know each other and are mostly fair to each other. Bungies job now is to add elements that help others to easily get into this game and the film shows elements that are attractive to a broad range of players.

And you are right all those nifty graphical/story things do not measure up the style of play for the individual persons, but what if you take those nifty things away, what have you then? A game that has (in your definition) gameplay, but nothing else?

> Again, people wrongly expected to know more on how Halo plays...
> their fault. But true well rounded gamers know that the most
> important part of any game is its gameplay. For some Bungie
> fans, I suppose, that role might diminish as they're statisfied
> to praise whatever they give them... but gamers as a whole
> expect- at least- to know how a game plays.

::chant Bungie chant::

Aye there are fans and there are people who want the game, but what for do they want it. Currently only for the engine, but us fans who have seen so many small things can put together how the game should be played. How the core functions are (I am talking about handling the character and not about "squad based combat", because in this definition it is not in the core of gameplay (which Quake has) you want to see. The movie shows things they plan for the single play, though since the single player is based on the experiences they made in multi player, you can draw conclusions on how the game is supposed to play.

> But like I said... whatever.

I hope that did not sound to harsh to you, but let me sum up: We have seen gameplay in the definition you think is gamplay, but the word "gameplay" is not in my dictionary, so I assume it is not a (defined) word at all. They are bad! They need news and thus they expect to much after hyping HALO too early. You want to see gameplay, even more then we have seen. You think that there is no actual gamplay in the movie, I think otherwise, but our definition of gameplay differs, so you as well as I may be right, or we are completely wrong and Bungie changes direction and turns Halo into Quake 7.

-CB

Message Index



Replies:

Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Wirehead 5/16/00 6:01 a.m.
     Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Forensic 5/16/00 6:17 a.m.
           Amen. n/tZaff 5/16/00 8:15 a.m.
                 Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Case 5/16/00 7:33 p.m.
           thats a logical score.*mxyzptlk 5/16/00 8:45 a.m.
                 after reading the rest of the article....*mxyzptlk 5/16/00 9:02 a.m.
           Oooo... sarky pants...Dfin' 5/16/00 8:49 a.m.
           What a weak retort... -ntJohnny Rotten 5/16/00 4:05 p.m.
     Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Luke 5/16/00 7:00 a.m.
           Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Redox 5/16/00 10:06 a.m.
     Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Psyrixx 5/16/00 8:52 a.m.
     Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Cannibal Harry =PN= 5/16/00 9:08 a.m.
     Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Myndreach [OSC] 5/16/00 9:17 a.m.
     Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Demandred 5/16/00 9:56 a.m.
           Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Edgecrusher 5/16/00 1:52 p.m.
     Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Cow Mutilator 5/16/00 10:00 a.m.
     Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Hiro.. 5/16/00 10:13 a.m.
           Oni (nt)David Oosha 5/16/00 11:14 a.m.
     Hype HurtsXian 5/16/00 10:33 a.m.
           Re: Hyp(ocrit)es HurtNarcogen 5/16/00 11:06 a.m.
                 Re: Hyp(ocrit)es HurtXian 5/16/00 11:44 a.m.
                       Re: Hyp(ocrit)es HurtMark Levin 5/16/00 12:01 p.m.
                             Re: Hyp(ocrit)es HurtXian 5/16/00 12:40 p.m.
                                   Re: Hyp(ocrit)es Hurt{BZ}SINginius 5/16/00 1:13 p.m.
                                         Maybe.Xian 5/16/00 1:30 p.m.
                                               Wrong.Nemesis 5/16/00 2:37 p.m.
                                                     Period? Hardly.Xian 5/16/00 2:52 p.m.
                                                           Actually you may be wrong here.CyberBob =PN= 5/16/00 3:42 p.m.
                                                           Re: Period? Hardly.Nemesis 5/16/00 11:02 p.m.
                                                           Re: YOU filled out their wordsNemesis 5/16/00 11:23 p.m.
                                   Re: Hyp(ocrit)es HurtMark Levin 5/16/00 1:48 p.m.
                                         Realistic representationXian 5/16/00 2:13 p.m.
                                               Re: Realistic representationMark Levin 5/16/00 3:03 p.m.
                                         Re: Hyp(ocrit)es HurtDemandred 5/16/00 5:17 p.m.
                       Xian : Do you WANT this game?mad.max =PN= 5/16/00 1:46 p.m.
                             Re: Xian : Do you WANT this game?Xian 5/16/00 2:24 p.m.
                                   You snipped my book analogymad.max =PN= 5/16/00 3:59 p.m.
                                         Re: You snipped my book analogyLouis Wu 5/16/00 11:49 p.m.
                       Press and GameplayCyberBob =PN= 5/16/00 1:48 p.m.
                             Re: Press and GameplayXian 5/16/00 2:47 p.m.
                                   Solely gameplay.CyberBob =PN= 5/16/00 2:58 p.m.
                                   Re: Press and GameplayDan Rudolph 5/16/00 5:47 p.m.
                             Re: Press and GameplayShadowfax 5/16/00 5:22 p.m.
                       Re: Hyp(ocrit)es HurtNemesis 5/16/00 2:31 p.m.
                             Re: Hyp(ocrit)es HurtXian 5/16/00 3:00 p.m.
                                   Re: Hyp(ocrit)es HurtNemesis 5/16/00 11:18 p.m.
                       Things LOOK pretty fun ALREADYTroy Lawlor 5/16/00 6:59 p.m.
                 Tribes2 score should have been lowerRagnarok 5/16/00 1:24 p.m.
                       Re: Tribes2 score should have been lowerDemandred 5/16/00 1:26 p.m.
     Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Dfin' 5/16/00 11:31 a.m.
     Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Mark Levin 5/16/00 11:51 a.m.
           Lemme clear this up...Xian 5/16/00 12:29 p.m.
           Hey Matt... how about some answers?Dfin' 5/17/00 3:22 a.m.
     Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Johnny Rotten 5/16/00 1:59 p.m.
           Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Moose-Factory 5/16/00 2:14 p.m.
                 Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Johnny Rotten 5/16/00 4:03 p.m.
                       Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Moose-Factory 5/16/00 4:20 p.m.
                             Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Dead Glory 5/16/00 4:40 p.m.
                             Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Demandred 5/16/00 5:26 p.m.
                             Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Johnny Rotten 5/16/00 6:50 p.m.
                                   we haven't seen much indoor yet though...eric 5/16/00 8:37 p.m.
                                   Indoor environments...Moose-Factory 5/16/00 10:23 p.m.
                       Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4Troy Lawlor 5/16/00 6:48 p.m.
           Re: Shugashack gives Halo 6.4eric 5/16/00 3:15 p.m.



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