Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*


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Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*

Posted By: scratskinner Date: 12/21/17 12:48 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED* (Forrest of B.org)

I'd been waffling about when to post, and then that fire happened, but now that things look kinda stable for you now, might as well.
: I hadn't thought of that angle, but possibly, it's an interesting thought.
: Mostly I was thinking that the resolution to "can I make copies of
: myself and modify them?" and the consequent legal/moral questions
: would be that there must remain an unmodified version of you, and any
: modified versions of you are basically "characters/personae"
: running on autopilot but with the unmodified you there in the background
: experiencing everything they experience and able to step in and assume
: control of them, with multiple simultaneous instances of the unmodified
: you running so you never feel like you're multitasking several lives, even
: though all of those instances share the same long-term memory and so don't
: diverge from each other.
: With that kind of system in place, Metis could spin off a bunch of modified
: copies of herself "in character" as different people. But that's
: still just a thought, I'm not sure yet that it's what's actually
: happening.
How far can you modify before your alts' (autopilot) goals diverge from your own? Say you're some hell denizen that really really wants to take the piss out of those goody-two-shoes that wants to "redeem" them. (It's hell, whaddya expect?) You want to keep messing with them, and if you're banned or whatever, you want to keep doing it without getting spotted instantly. It's important to find that sweet spot between "can't tell it's me cause it isn't" and "actually is me and quickly spotted" for your sockpuppets.
I imagine certain members of hell outreach (say, for instance, Xiu) have gotten plenty of experience sussing out trolls navigating this sweet spot, if being Virtuality native for a sufficient time didn't do it.
(I mean, yeah, there's the admin, but you still need that nagging sense that something's off to ask for their eyes on it. And they might be hijacking someone else's alt, or that someone else might be the equivalent of a straw buyer, so even an admin might not assure a speedy confirmation of ban evasion.)
It could also factor into Sue's relationship with Tom. Tom keeps giving her mixed signals, always changing form, yet no sinister motive behind it. (Xiu called tons of false alarms on him, and Tom sought out whoever it was kept doing this to him.) And Tom, for his part, is amazed that Sue can always tell it's him, no matter what form he takes or tweaks he makes. (Once Sue figured out how to distinguish between "Tom" and "troll", anyways.)
Metis, given her pre-apocalypse Virtuality aversion, would not be so skilled. I imagine Sue getting this stop-and-go sense of offness as she incorporates her memories, stop-and go because Metis patches things to pass the Sue Pseudo Detector Mk. x, and then Sue, via memory recovery/incorporation, upgrades to Mk. x+1, and Metis has to put out fires again. Metis eventually realizes alts won't cut it: she has to pull in actually different people. And the time wasted arms racing Sue: lots of panic attacks from Sue, a mounting sense of dread from Tom, and too thinly stretched to do something conclusive like review memories in the queue or properly disable magic. To say nothing of her other duties: is she still running the world throughout all this?
If not, (and maybe even if so, if she's mostly dealing with high-level stuff now, and really rusty on her early days in this incarnation) there may be certain aspects of organizations that Metis wasn't simulating properly, and which Sue would, having significant related skills, spot right off. (More fires for Metis to put out!)
All sorts of "Augh, I missed they'd had that experience" shenanigans are possible here. (There really ought to be more vetting of memories after the trial run. Or maybe Metis wants to see Sue/Tom suffer as she did. Just a little.)
Another thought: at what point do they stop being Princess/Nystimi* and Murdock, with Sue and Tom's memories, and simply are Sue and Tom? I'd expect some skepticism ("I was some detached granny?/What! I was some hotheaded panphile?!") and then some gradual realization that it is them("It is awful tempting not to deal with all these politics./I do feel right when in the thick of things"). Maybe there's still some dissonance, enough that they use both old and new names. (Not sure on the hypothetical dialogue for sue.)
*Terrible terrible wordplay alert. Ny Stimmy (later, post-virtuality) Xiu: something she has no doubt said many times over her career. (Are minimal-syllable names a Vampire thing, or am I extrapolating too widely? Also, I forget: what sort of art was Xiao Do?)
: Yeah, that would have likely happened some time during Falling of the
: Darklight, which is part of the big gap I have in their personal
: timelines: what were these two doing while staying away from all of the
: action that is the focus of those stories?
Don't forget that being in the thick of it is not necessarily incompatible with being baseline by the time they hatch their yin-yang plot with the Gems.
Even if you don't go for the "work your way back" approach, given the apparent timescale corruption works on, it's not entirely inconceivable for them to walk onto the scene as things go all Charlie Foxtrot, and return to whatever they were doing before. Or maybe Xiu is still basically doing hell outreach and visits both spheres of influence, while Tom is simply allergic to corruption from the lock-in and never stays in one place for long. Or even that, in their wars with each other, the Ice Queen/Fire King (or less far gone subordinates) recognized the value of people resistant to Gem subordination (if only in application to the enemy) and actively trained such to be further corruptionproof (and Sue/Tom met as opposite numbers).
At any rate, assuming it wasn't blatantly obvious to you already: Focus on Sue. Tom's (post-"Life in Another World") bits, Murdock's bits: Show it from her point of view. Give yourself more material to work with, and it should be clearer how things will flow in the endgame.
: I dunno, I thought that that part felt very natural for her, and it wasn't
: focused on her because of our discussion here, that part was always meant
: to be Xiu-centric. I picture her as more of the diplomatic social type of
: person, while Tom is the more action-oriented one. Like how in the old
: Virtuality, she was part of the group organizing the project to redeem
: damned souls, but Tom was one of the ones actually going to hell in
: service of that project. So having her take charge of the sociopolitical
: aspects of Sphidi relations seems very natural and characteristic of her,
: to me.
I was referring more to the "Finally, Sue gets the spotlight" in the announcement you made. Unless you were always planning to do that?
Also, wasn't Xiu already there when Xio saved that pocket of Virtuality? At any rate, being willing to do the legwork is kinda part of the requirements for getting to higher levels of heaven, and it would be less-than-virtuous for them to never actually visit Hell and leave all the dirty work to other people. Which you seem to be implying with "the ones actually going to hell".
(Now I'm wondering: are there people who leave a highish level of heaven and find they can't come back because their standards had slipped before they left? and who this would happen to, but never actually leave?)
Plus, diplomacy ever so occasionally requires you go to the other party in person.
And running Sphidi politics may be characteristic of her, but none of her characteristics are coming through, which is what I was trying to get at.

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Pre-2004 Posts

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The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 8/24/17 10:00 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva General-RADIX 8/25/17 4:53 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva General-RADIX 8/25/17 10:26 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 8/25/17 11:06 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva General-RADIX 8/25/17 11:31 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 8/25/17 11:37 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva scratskinner 8/25/17 8:45 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 8/25/17 9:47 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva scratskinner 8/25/17 10:53 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 8/25/17 11:36 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva — MMOSs Can-ned Food 8/26/17 7:40 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva General-RADIX 8/26/17 5:10 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 8/27/17 8:01 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva scratskinner 8/27/17 1:13 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 8/27/17 6:22 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Can-ned Food 8/26/17 6:36 p.m.

Nurbal Colony: Part 1 Forrest of B.org 9/6/17 9:45 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 1 Forrest of B.org 9/7/17 8:28 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 1 scratskinner 9/7/17 9:24 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 1 Forrest of B.org 9/7/17 9:50 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony Can-ned Food 9/8/17 1:42 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony irons 9/15/17 2:53 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony Forrest of B.org 9/18/17 1:26 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony irons 9/19/17 2:11 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 9/8/17 8:59 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3 General-RADIX 9/8/17 9:59 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 9/8/17 10:44 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3 VikingBoyBilly 9/9/17 7:52 a.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 9/9/17 8:13 a.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3 VikingBoyBilly 9/9/17 3:18 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 9/9/17 3:56 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 9/11/17 4:00 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3 VikingBoyBilly 9/15/17 3:29 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 9/19/17 3:11 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 1 Forrest of B.org 9/12/17 10:12 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 1 General-RADIX 9/12/17 11:17 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 9/13/17 10:06 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 9/14/17 9:51 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 9/19/17 2:35 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Enemy: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 9/19/17 10:28 p.m.

Re: Nurbal Enemy: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 9/20/17 7:48 p.m.

Columbia Resurgent: Part 1 Forrest of B.org 10/3/17 9:15 p.m.

Re: Columbia Resurgent: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 10/4/17 9:29 p.m.

Re: Columbia Resurgent: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 10/5/17 9:32 p.m.

Re: Columbia Resurgent: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 10/10/17 9:57 p.m.

Terra Resurgent: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 10/11/17 9:36 p.m.

Re: Terra Resurgent: Part 2 scratskinner 10/12/17 12:22 p.m.

Re: Terra Resurgent: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 10/12/17 12:24 p.m.

Terra Resurgent: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 10/12/17 9:31 p.m.

Sol Resurgent: Part 1 Forrest of B.org 10/17/17 10:37 p.m.

Sol Resurgent: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 10/18/17 10:09 p.m.

Sol Resurgent: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 10/19/17 9:49 p.m.

Re: Sol Resurgent: Part 3 scratskinner 10/19/17 10:45 p.m.

Re: Sol Resurgent: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 10/19/17 11:24 p.m.

Virtuality Transcendent: Part 1 Forrest of B.org 10/30/17 10:10 p.m.

Virtuality Transcendent: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 10/31/17 9:31 p.m.

Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 11/1/17 9:52 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 scratskinner 11/7/17 9:05 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 11/7/17 9:20 p.m.

Virtuality Incarnate: Part 1 Forrest of B.org 11/7/17 9:08 p.m.

Virtuality Incarnate: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 11/8/17 8:25 p.m.

Virtuality Incarnate: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 11/9/17 8:55 p.m.

Virtuality Immanent: Part 1 Forrest of B.org 11/14/17 8:55 p.m.

Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 11/15/17 9:03 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 scratskinner 11/16/17 1:46 a.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 11/16/17 1:20 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 scratskinner 11/17/17 2:40 a.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 11/17/17 4:00 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 VikingBoyBilly 11/17/17 5:57 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 11/17/17 10:08 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 VikingBoyBilly 11/18/17 2:35 a.m.

Re: Eternal stuff Forrest of B.org 11/20/17 10:02 a.m.

Re: Eternal stuff VikingBoyBilly 11/20/17 2:27 p.m.

Re: Eternal stuff General-RADIX 11/20/17 6:32 p.m.

Re: Eternal stuff Forrest of B.org 11/20/17 8:21 p.m.

Re: Eternal stuff General-RADIX 11/20/17 9:19 p.m.

Re: Eternal stuff VikingBoyBilly 11/22/17 1:46 p.m.

Re: Eternal stuff General-RADIX 11/22/17 3:30 p.m.

Re: Eternal stuff nevets01 11/25/17 4:37 a.m.

Re: Eternal stuff PerseusSpartacus 11/25/17 10:14 a.m.

Re: Eternal stuff Forrest of B.org 11/26/17 9:25 p.m.

Re: Eternal stuff General-RADIX 11/26/17 10:21 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 scratskinner 11/18/17 3:39 a.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 11/20/17 10:33 a.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 3c scratskinner 11/22/17 7:20 a.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 3c Forrest of B.org 11/22/17 9:54 a.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 General-RADIX 11/18/17 6:37 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 Forrest of B.org 11/20/17 10:40 a.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 General-RADIX 11/20/17 1:51 p.m.

Virtuality Immanent: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 11/16/17 9:57 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3 scratskinner 11/17/17 12:38 a.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3 General-RADIX 11/17/17 7:15 a.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3 VikingBoyBilly 11/17/17 12:35 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 11/17/17 3:23 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3 VikingBoyBilly 11/17/17 6:06 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3 Forrest of B.org 11/17/17 10:05 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3 nevets01 11/17/17 12:46 p.m.

The Chronicles of Quelouva are DONE! (ish) Forrest of B.org 12/29/17 8:31 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva are DONE! (ish) General-RADIX 12/30/17 1:47 a.m.

some random thoughts scratskinner 9/9/17 12:29 a.m.

Re: some random thoughts Forrest of B.org 9/9/17 8:40 a.m.

Re: some random thoughts scratskinner 9/10/17 2:19 a.m.

Re: some random thoughts Forrest of B.org 9/11/17 9:35 a.m.

Re: some random thoughts scratskinner 9/12/17 5:14 p.m.

Re: some random thoughts Forrest of B.org 9/12/17 6:24 p.m.

Re: some random thoughts scratskinner 9/14/17 7:53 p.m.

Re: some random thoughts Forrest of B.org 9/14/17 10:13 p.m.

Re: some random thoughts scratskinner 9/16/17 11:01 a.m.

Re: some random thoughts Forrest of B.org 9/16/17 2:56 p.m.

Re: some random thoughts scratskinner 9/17/17 12:13 p.m.

Re: some random thoughts Forrest of B.org 9/18/17 8:10 a.m.

Re: some random thoughts 2b scratskinner 9/16/17 9:12 a.m.

Re: some random thoughts 2b Forrest of B.org 9/16/17 2:58 p.m.

Re: some random thoughts 2b scratskinner 9/17/17 12:31 p.m.

Re: some random thoughts 2b Forrest of B.org 9/18/17 7:41 a.m.

Re: some random thoughts Forrest of B.org 9/11/17 3:37 p.m.

Re: some random thoughts Forrest of B.org 9/14/17 1:55 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva General-RADIX 9/11/17 8:02 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 9/28/17 9:43 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva scratskinner 9/30/17 1:11 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 10/2/17 9:56 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva scratskinner 10/7/17 12:53 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 10/9/17 3:14 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva scratskinner 10/17/17 6:38 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 10/17/17 8:23 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Tycho 10/22/17 4:14 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva nevets01 10/23/17 7:42 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 10/23/17 10:41 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 10/26/17 10:49 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva scratskinner 10/27/17 1:34 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 10/27/17 8:32 a.m.

Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED* scratskinner 11/9/17 10:50 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED* Forrest of B.org 11/10/17 8:39 a.m.

Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED* scratskinner 12/21/17 12:48 p.m.

noticed you've updated while doing some factchecks scratskinner 12/21/17 2:26 p.m.

Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED* Forrest of B.org 12/21/17 3:48 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 11/22/17 12:18 p.m.

Future Perfect expanded Forrest of B.org 11/29/17 10:00 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 12/7/17 9:30 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva General-RADIX 12/7/17 9:43 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 12/7/17 10:24 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva scratskinner 12/8/17 7:22 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 12/9/17 8:19 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 12/13/17 9:10 a.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva General-RADIX 12/13/17 3:18 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Yossarian 12/15/17 9:58 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva scratskinner 12/16/17 1:22 p.m.

Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva Forrest of B.org 12/18/17 12:56 p.m.

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Pre-2004 Posts

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: I'd been waffling about when to post, and then that fire happened, but now : that things look kinda stable for you now, might as well. : How far can you modify before your alts' (autopilot) goals diverge from your : own? Say you're some hell denizen that really really wants to take the : piss out of those goody-two-shoes that wants to "redeem" them. : (It's hell , whaddya expect?) You want to keep messing with them, and if : you're banned or whatever, you want to keep doing it without getting : spotted instantly. It's important to find that sweet spot between : "can't tell it's me cause it isn't" and "actually is me and : quickly spotted" for your sockpuppets. : I imagine certain members of hell outreach (say, for instance, Xiu) have : gotten plenty of experience sussing out trolls navigating this sweet spot, : if being Virtuality native for a sufficient time didn't do it. : (I mean, yeah, there's the admin, but you still need that nagging sense that : something's off to ask for their eyes on it. And they might be hijacking : someone else's alt, or that someone else might be the equivalent of a : straw buyer, so even an admin might not assure a speedy confirmation of : ban evasion.) : It could also factor into Sue's relationship with Tom. Tom keeps giving her : mixed signals, always changing form, yet no sinister motive behind it. : (Xiu called tons of false alarms on him, and Tom sought out whoever it : was kept doing this to him.) And Tom, for his part, is amazed that Sue can : always tell it's him, no matter what form he takes or tweaks he makes. : (Once Sue figured out how to distinguish between "Tom" and : "troll", anyways.) : Metis, given her pre-apocalypse Virtuality aversion, would not be so skilled. : I imagine Sue getting this stop-and-go sense of offness as she : incorporates her memories, stop-and go because Metis patches things to : pass the Sue Pseudo Detector Mk. x, and then Sue, via memory : recovery/incorporation, upgrades to Mk. x+1, and Metis has to put out : fires again. Metis eventually realizes alts won't cut it: she has to pull : in actually different people. And the time wasted arms racing Sue: lots of : panic attacks from Sue, a mounting sense of dread from Tom, and too thinly : stretched to do something conclusive like review memories in the queue or : properly disable magic. To say nothing of her other duties: is she still : running the world throughout all this? : If not, (and maybe even if so, if she's mostly dealing with high-level stuff : now, and really rusty on her early days in this incarnation) there may be : certain aspects of organizations that Metis wasn't simulating properly, : and which Sue would, having significant related skills, spot right off. : (More fires for Metis to put out!) : All sorts of "Augh, I missed they'd had that experience" : shenanigans are possible here. (There really ought to be more vetting of : memories after the trial run. Or maybe Metis wants to see Sue/Tom suffer : as she did. Just a little.) : Another thought: at what point do they stop being Princess/Nystimi* and : Murdock, with Sue and Tom's memories, and simply are Sue and Tom? I'd : expect some skepticism ("I was some detached granny?/What! I was some : hotheaded panphile?!") and then some gradual realization that it is : them("It is awful tempting not to deal with all these politics./I : do feel right when in the thick of things"). Maybe there's still some : dissonance, enough that they use both old and new names. (Not sure on the : hypothetical dialogue for sue.) : *Terrible terrible wordplay alert. Ny Stimmy (later, post-virtuality) Xiu: : something she has no doubt said many times over her career. (Are : minimal-syllable names a Vampire thing, or am I extrapolating too widely? : Also, I forget: what sort of art was Xiao Do?) : Don't forget that being in the thick of it is not necessarily incompatible : with being baseline by the time they hatch their yin-yang plot with the : Gems. : Even if you don't go for the "work your way back" approach, given : the apparent timescale corruption works on, it's not entirely : inconceivable for them to walk onto the scene as things go all Charlie : Foxtrot, and return to whatever they were doing before. Or maybe Xiu is : still basically doing hell outreach and visits both spheres of influence, : while Tom is simply allergic to corruption from the lock-in and never : stays in one place for long. Or even that, in their wars with each other, : the Ice Queen/Fire King (or less far gone subordinates) recognized the : value of people resistant to Gem subordination (if only in application to : the enemy) and actively trained such to be further corruptionproof (and : Sue/Tom met as opposite numbers). : At any rate, assuming it wasn't blatantly obvious to you already: Focus on : Sue. Tom's (post-"Life in Another World") bits, Murdock's bits: : Show it from her point of view. Give yourself more material to work with, : and it should be clearer how things will flow in the endgame. : I was referring more to the "Finally, Sue gets the spotlight" in : the announcement you made. Unless you were always planning to do that? : Also, wasn't Xiu already there when Xio saved that pocket of Virtuality? At : any rate, being willing to do the legwork is kinda part of the : requirements for getting to higher levels of heaven, and it would be : less-than-virtuous for them to never actually visit Hell and leave all : the dirty work to other people. Which you seem to be implying with : "the ones actually going to hell". : (Now I'm wondering: are there people who leave a highish level of heaven and : find they can't come back because their standards had slipped before they : left? and who this would happen to, but never actually leave?) : Plus, diplomacy ever so occasionally requires you go to the other party in : person. : And running Sphidi politics may be characteristic of her, but none of her : characteristics are coming through, which is what I was trying to get at.

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The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/24/17 10:00 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	8/25/17 4:53 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	8/25/17 10:26 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/25/17 11:06 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	8/25/17 11:31 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/25/17 11:37 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	8/25/17 8:45 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/25/17 9:47 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	8/25/17 10:53 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/25/17 11:36 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva — MMOSs	Can-ned Food	8/26/17 7:40 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	8/26/17 5:10 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/27/17 8:01 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	8/27/17 1:13 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/27/17 6:22 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Can-ned Food	8/26/17 6:36 p.m.
Nurbal Colony: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	9/6/17 9:45 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	9/7/17 8:28 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 1	scratskinner	9/7/17 9:24 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	9/7/17 9:50 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony	Can-ned Food	9/8/17 1:42 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony	irons	9/15/17 2:53 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony	Forrest of B.org	9/18/17 1:26 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony	irons	9/19/17 2:11 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/8/17 8:59 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	General-RADIX	9/8/17 9:59 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/8/17 10:44 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	9/9/17 7:52 a.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/9/17 8:13 a.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	9/9/17 3:18 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/9/17 3:56 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/11/17 4:00 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	9/15/17 3:29 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/19/17 3:11 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	9/12/17 10:12 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 1	General-RADIX	9/12/17 11:17 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	9/13/17 10:06 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/14/17 9:51 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/19/17 2:35 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Enemy: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	9/19/17 10:28 p.m.
Re: Nurbal Enemy: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	9/20/17 7:48 p.m.
Columbia Resurgent: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	10/3/17 9:15 p.m.
Re: Columbia Resurgent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/4/17 9:29 p.m.
Re: Columbia Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/5/17 9:32 p.m.
Re: Columbia Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/10/17 9:57 p.m.
Terra Resurgent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/11/17 9:36 p.m.
Re: Terra Resurgent: Part 2	scratskinner	10/12/17 12:22 p.m.
Re: Terra Resurgent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/12/17 12:24 p.m.
Terra Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/12/17 9:31 p.m.
Sol Resurgent: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	10/17/17 10:37 p.m.
Sol Resurgent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/18/17 10:09 p.m.
Sol Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/19/17 9:49 p.m.
Re: Sol Resurgent: Part 3	scratskinner	10/19/17 10:45 p.m.
Re: Sol Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/19/17 11:24 p.m.
Virtuality Transcendent: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	10/30/17 10:10 p.m.
Virtuality Transcendent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/31/17 9:31 p.m.
Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/1/17 9:52 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3	scratskinner	11/7/17 9:05 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/7/17 9:20 p.m.
Virtuality Incarnate: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	11/7/17 9:08 p.m.
Virtuality Incarnate: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/8/17 8:25 p.m.
Virtuality Incarnate: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/9/17 8:55 p.m.
Virtuality Immanent: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	11/14/17 8:55 p.m.
Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/15/17 9:03 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	scratskinner	11/16/17 1:46 a.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/16/17 1:20 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	scratskinner	11/17/17 2:40 a.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/17/17 4:00 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	VikingBoyBilly	11/17/17 5:57 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/17/17 10:08 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	VikingBoyBilly	11/18/17 2:35 a.m.
Re: Eternal stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/20/17 10:02 a.m.
Re: Eternal stuff	VikingBoyBilly	11/20/17 2:27 p.m.
Re: Eternal stuff	General-RADIX	11/20/17 6:32 p.m.
Re: Eternal stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/20/17 8:21 p.m.
Re: Eternal stuff	General-RADIX	11/20/17 9:19 p.m.
Re: Eternal stuff	VikingBoyBilly	11/22/17 1:46 p.m.
Re: Eternal stuff	General-RADIX	11/22/17 3:30 p.m.
Re: Eternal stuff	nevets01	11/25/17 4:37 a.m.
Re: Eternal stuff	PerseusSpartacus	11/25/17 10:14 a.m.
Re: Eternal stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/26/17 9:25 p.m.
Re: Eternal stuff	General-RADIX	11/26/17 10:21 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	scratskinner	11/18/17 3:39 a.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/20/17 10:33 a.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 3c	scratskinner	11/22/17 7:20 a.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 3c	Forrest of B.org	11/22/17 9:54 a.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	General-RADIX	11/18/17 6:37 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/20/17 10:40 a.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	General-RADIX	11/20/17 1:51 p.m.
Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/16/17 9:57 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	scratskinner	11/17/17 12:38 a.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	General-RADIX	11/17/17 7:15 a.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	11/17/17 12:35 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/17/17 3:23 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	11/17/17 6:06 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/17/17 10:05 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	nevets01	11/17/17 12:46 p.m.
The Chronicles of Quelouva are DONE! (ish)	Forrest of B.org	12/29/17 8:31 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva are DONE! (ish)	General-RADIX	12/30/17 1:47 a.m.
some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/9/17 12:29 a.m.
Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/9/17 8:40 a.m.
Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/10/17 2:19 a.m.
Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/11/17 9:35 a.m.
Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/12/17 5:14 p.m.
Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/12/17 6:24 p.m.
Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/14/17 7:53 p.m.
Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/14/17 10:13 p.m.
Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/16/17 11:01 a.m.
Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/16/17 2:56 p.m.
Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/17/17 12:13 p.m.
Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/18/17 8:10 a.m.
Re: some random thoughts 2b	scratskinner	9/16/17 9:12 a.m.
Re: some random thoughts 2b	Forrest of B.org	9/16/17 2:58 p.m.
Re: some random thoughts 2b	scratskinner	9/17/17 12:31 p.m.
Re: some random thoughts 2b	Forrest of B.org	9/18/17 7:41 a.m.
Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/11/17 3:37 p.m.
Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/14/17 1:55 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	9/11/17 8:02 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	9/28/17 9:43 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	9/30/17 1:11 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/2/17 9:56 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	10/7/17 12:53 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/9/17 3:14 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	10/17/17 6:38 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/17/17 8:23 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Tycho	10/22/17 4:14 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	nevets01	10/23/17 7:42 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/23/17 10:41 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/26/17 10:49 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	10/27/17 1:34 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/27/17 8:32 a.m.
Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 MOVED	scratskinner	11/9/17 10:50 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 MOVED	Forrest of B.org	11/10/17 8:39 a.m.
Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 MOVED	scratskinner	12/21/17 12:48 p.m.
noticed you've updated while doing some factchecks	scratskinner	12/21/17 2:26 p.m.
Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 MOVED	Forrest of B.org	12/21/17 3:48 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	11/22/17 12:18 p.m.
Future Perfect expanded	Forrest of B.org	11/29/17 10:00 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/7/17 9:30 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	12/7/17 9:43 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/7/17 10:24 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	12/8/17 7:22 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/9/17 8:19 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/13/17 9:10 a.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	12/13/17 3:18 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Yossarian	12/15/17 9:58 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	12/16/17 1:22 p.m.
Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/18/17 12:56 p.m.



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	Message: : I'd been waffling about when to post, and then that fire happened, but now : that things look kinda stable for you now, might as well. : How far can you modify before your alts' (autopilot) goals diverge from your : own? Say you're some hell denizen that really really wants to take the : piss out of those goody-two-shoes that wants to "redeem" them. : (It's hell , whaddya expect?) You want to keep messing with them, and if : you're banned or whatever, you want to keep doing it without getting : spotted instantly. It's important to find that sweet spot between : "can't tell it's me cause it isn't" and "actually is me and : quickly spotted" for your sockpuppets. : I imagine certain members of hell outreach (say, for instance, Xiu) have : gotten plenty of experience sussing out trolls navigating this sweet spot, : if being Virtuality native for a sufficient time didn't do it. : (I mean, yeah, there's the admin, but you still need that nagging sense that : something's off to ask for their eyes on it. And they might be hijacking : someone else's alt, or that someone else might be the equivalent of a : straw buyer, so even an admin might not assure a speedy confirmation of : ban evasion.) : It could also factor into Sue's relationship with Tom. Tom keeps giving her : mixed signals, always changing form, yet no sinister motive behind it. : (Xiu called tons of false alarms on him, and Tom sought out whoever it : was kept doing this to him.) And Tom, for his part, is amazed that Sue can : always tell it's him, no matter what form he takes or tweaks he makes. : (Once Sue figured out how to distinguish between "Tom" and : "troll", anyways.) : Metis, given her pre-apocalypse Virtuality aversion, would not be so skilled. : I imagine Sue getting this stop-and-go sense of offness as she : incorporates her memories, stop-and go because Metis patches things to : pass the Sue Pseudo Detector Mk. x, and then Sue, via memory : recovery/incorporation, upgrades to Mk. x+1, and Metis has to put out : fires again. Metis eventually realizes alts won't cut it: she has to pull : in actually different people. And the time wasted arms racing Sue: lots of : panic attacks from Sue, a mounting sense of dread from Tom, and too thinly : stretched to do something conclusive like review memories in the queue or : properly disable magic. To say nothing of her other duties: is she still : running the world throughout all this? : If not, (and maybe even if so, if she's mostly dealing with high-level stuff : now, and really rusty on her early days in this incarnation) there may be : certain aspects of organizations that Metis wasn't simulating properly, : and which Sue would, having significant related skills, spot right off. : (More fires for Metis to put out!) : All sorts of "Augh, I missed they'd had that experience" : shenanigans are possible here. (There really ought to be more vetting of : memories after the trial run. Or maybe Metis wants to see Sue/Tom suffer : as she did. Just a little.) : Another thought: at what point do they stop being Princess/Nystimi* and : Murdock, with Sue and Tom's memories, and simply are Sue and Tom? I'd : expect some skepticism ("I was some detached granny?/What! I was some : hotheaded panphile?!") and then some gradual realization that it is : them("It is awful tempting not to deal with all these politics./I : do feel right when in the thick of things"). Maybe there's still some : dissonance, enough that they use both old and new names. (Not sure on the : hypothetical dialogue for sue.) : *Terrible terrible wordplay alert. Ny Stimmy (later, post-virtuality) Xiu: : something she has no doubt said many times over her career. (Are : minimal-syllable names a Vampire thing, or am I extrapolating too widely? : Also, I forget: what sort of art was Xiao Do?) : Don't forget that being in the thick of it is not necessarily incompatible : with being baseline by the time they hatch their yin-yang plot with the : Gems. : Even if you don't go for the "work your way back" approach, given : the apparent timescale corruption works on, it's not entirely : inconceivable for them to walk onto the scene as things go all Charlie : Foxtrot, and return to whatever they were doing before. Or maybe Xiu is : still basically doing hell outreach and visits both spheres of influence, : while Tom is simply allergic to corruption from the lock-in and never : stays in one place for long. Or even that, in their wars with each other, : the Ice Queen/Fire King (or less far gone subordinates) recognized the : value of people resistant to Gem subordination (if only in application to : the enemy) and actively trained such to be further corruptionproof (and : Sue/Tom met as opposite numbers). : At any rate, assuming it wasn't blatantly obvious to you already: Focus on : Sue. Tom's (post-"Life in Another World") bits, Murdock's bits: : Show it from her point of view. Give yourself more material to work with, : and it should be clearer how things will flow in the endgame. : I was referring more to the "Finally, Sue gets the spotlight" in : the announcement you made. Unless you were always planning to do that? : Also, wasn't Xiu already there when Xio saved that pocket of Virtuality? At : any rate, being willing to do the legwork is kinda part of the : requirements for getting to higher levels of heaven, and it would be : less-than-virtuous for them to never actually visit Hell and leave all : the dirty work to other people. Which you seem to be implying with : "the ones actually going to hell". : (Now I'm wondering: are there people who leave a highish level of heaven and : find they can't come back because their standards had slipped before they : left? and who this would happen to, but never actually leave?) : Plus, diplomacy ever so occasionally requires you go to the other party in : person. : And running Sphidi politics may be characteristic of her, but none of her : characteristics are coming through, which is what I was trying to get at.
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