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	Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*
	Posted By: scratskinner	Date: 11/9/17 10:50 p.m.
	In Response To: The Chronicles of Quelouva (Forrest of B.org) : I'm not certain about that yet, but thinking about that in connection with : some ideas I've been having for fleshing out some Life in Another World : stories, I'm considering the possibility that they are all Metis. Would some of those ideas be sowing the seeds for the fire/ice goddesses' New World Order? Say there's a faction of the folk doing the whole "reach out to the damned in hell" project that have forgotten their own spiritual journey somewhat and want to accelerate the timetable. And another set of folks who are perfectly willing to have their personality overhauled but don't really want to put in the work themselves. And the goddesses of Fire and Ice looking over all this with the gears turning in their heads... (Either of them got the sort of aesthetic that would make that literal gears?) I figure this would go under the bit exploring whether persons who are sufficiently simplified count as constructs. Also, didn't Metis announce at one point she was staying away from Virtuality on account of all the stalkers? With that little exposure to Virtuality, and its fuzzination of identity (where changing form is as simple as thought, that's likely to happen sooner or later), it seems kind of iffy that running multiple instances of herself would be something she'd consider herself able to handle, and might even have some inhibition. Amusingly, her avowal might make the people who knew of it more confident they were in reality. Or it might cut the other way: "Why are you running Virtuality therapy? I thought you wanted to avoid people that would mistake you for the Queen of Hell!" (Tom, who is apparently one of those that did homework on Metis, may ask awkward questions like "Wanna spar? Just remembered I learned your mother taught martial arts!") : Like how Sue's not as much a protagonist as Tom? Yeah, that bugs me, and I'm : being kind of lazy in doing anything about it. I intend for them to be : co-protagonists, but since their original characters were basically : constructed to be opposites, Xiuying a normal traditional grandma who : minds her own business and Tom an aggressive weirdo pushing the limits of : transhumanity, interesting things for Tom to do just spring more readily : to mind. But I want at some point to give Xiu more interesting screen time : too. I'm not sure. I have to wonder if part of it is that this is so close to the end, and there's an expectation that all parties involved will be contributing to the action in somewhat equal measure. (It might also be that an earlier iteration implied they were joined at the hip throughout their trial, and this one has the spotlight shift to Tom in the second part.) A deeper part might be that as Tom is characterized more, there is more setup available for him. It feels more plausible for him to make the breakthrough because he visibly had time to adjust to being "human", whereas Sue was cut down not soon after she got turned; he ultimately got turned because he failed in passing on the Gem of Fire properly, Sue succeeded on her side of affairs without a hitch and henceforth dropped out of the narrative until Tom's story came to her. There's a certain level of viscerality present when Tom is the focus of narration that isn't there with Sue: at least for the portion that got me concerned, Tom's personal struggle and inner thought is visible, and Sue's is not. And just as Murdock explains politics and stuff to his sister, so too does Tom relay the magic block bypass to Sue; both cases feeling like server-client rather than peer-to-peer. Something I'm pretty sure your outline does not cover (yet) is how Tom and Sue met, their first taking measure of each other. Is this one of the things you still need to flesh out? Also, didn't this traditional grandma serve in a war? (or had she just lived through one?) And she's not really minding her own business with the whole "reach out to the damned in hell" project, is she? (Yeah, this is presumably the result of character development, but still.) Anyway, I don't know that they would be sufficient to fix things, but here are a couple of tweaks to Transcendent that I thought of: When Tom relays the means to break past the magic block, have the narrative follow Sue instead of staying with Tom. And have Sue's perception of things in goddessland slightly differ; not literally, but simply reflecting a different perspective from Tom's. Alternately, take out Tom's first visit to goddessland, just have him wake up without any green hills in between. Have his passing on of bypassing the block go as normal (Sue passes out, Tom worries) but have Sue come back by herself, gushing about transcendence or whatever and urging Tom to follow her to goddessland. She'd thought to try shifting realms. Or maybe some combination of the two. I don't think you've really solved things with Incarnate so far. In Part 2, it feels like Sue could be replaced with, say, that Meij on Kron's council without the reader realizing instantly something's screwy. It feels like Sue is being defined by her situation, and there's nothing countering that. (Incidentally, Sue should be a mite annoyed that transcendence was part of the smokescreen.) Also this got moved on account of "nesting too deep". Gotten wide enough for the subject line to wrap.

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Replies:

	The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/24/17 10:00 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	8/25/17 4:53 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	8/25/17 10:26 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/25/17 11:06 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	8/25/17 11:31 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/25/17 11:37 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	8/25/17 8:45 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/25/17 9:47 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	8/25/17 10:53 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/25/17 11:36 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva — MMOSs	Can-ned Food	8/26/17 7:40 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	8/26/17 5:10 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/27/17 8:01 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	8/27/17 1:13 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/27/17 6:22 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Can-ned Food	8/26/17 6:36 p.m.
	Nurbal Colony: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	9/6/17 9:45 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	9/7/17 8:28 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 1	scratskinner	9/7/17 9:24 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	9/7/17 9:50 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony	Can-ned Food	9/8/17 1:42 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony	irons	9/15/17 2:53 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony	Forrest of B.org	9/18/17 1:26 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony	irons	9/19/17 2:11 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/8/17 8:59 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	General-RADIX	9/8/17 9:59 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/8/17 10:44 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	9/9/17 7:52 a.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/9/17 8:13 a.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	9/9/17 3:18 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/9/17 3:56 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/11/17 4:00 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	9/15/17 3:29 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/19/17 3:11 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	9/12/17 10:12 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 1	General-RADIX	9/12/17 11:17 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	9/13/17 10:06 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/14/17 9:51 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/19/17 2:35 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Enemy: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	9/19/17 10:28 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Enemy: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	9/20/17 7:48 p.m.
	Columbia Resurgent: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	10/3/17 9:15 p.m.
	Re: Columbia Resurgent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/4/17 9:29 p.m.
	Re: Columbia Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/5/17 9:32 p.m.
	Re: Columbia Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/10/17 9:57 p.m.
	Terra Resurgent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/11/17 9:36 p.m.
	Re: Terra Resurgent: Part 2	scratskinner	10/12/17 12:22 p.m.
	Re: Terra Resurgent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/12/17 12:24 p.m.
	Terra Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/12/17 9:31 p.m.
	Sol Resurgent: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	10/17/17 10:37 p.m.
	Sol Resurgent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/18/17 10:09 p.m.
	Sol Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/19/17 9:49 p.m.
	Re: Sol Resurgent: Part 3	scratskinner	10/19/17 10:45 p.m.
	Re: Sol Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/19/17 11:24 p.m.
	Virtuality Transcendent: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	10/30/17 10:10 p.m.
	Virtuality Transcendent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/31/17 9:31 p.m.
	Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/1/17 9:52 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3	scratskinner	11/7/17 9:05 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/7/17 9:20 p.m.
	Virtuality Incarnate: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	11/7/17 9:08 p.m.
	Virtuality Incarnate: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/8/17 8:25 p.m.
	Virtuality Incarnate: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/9/17 8:55 p.m.
	Virtuality Immanent: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	11/14/17 8:55 p.m.
	Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/15/17 9:03 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	scratskinner	11/16/17 1:46 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/16/17 1:20 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	scratskinner	11/17/17 2:40 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/17/17 4:00 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	VikingBoyBilly	11/17/17 5:57 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/17/17 10:08 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	VikingBoyBilly	11/18/17 2:35 a.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/20/17 10:02 a.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	VikingBoyBilly	11/20/17 2:27 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	General-RADIX	11/20/17 6:32 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/20/17 8:21 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	General-RADIX	11/20/17 9:19 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	VikingBoyBilly	11/22/17 1:46 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	General-RADIX	11/22/17 3:30 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	nevets01	11/25/17 4:37 a.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	PerseusSpartacus	11/25/17 10:14 a.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/26/17 9:25 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	General-RADIX	11/26/17 10:21 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	scratskinner	11/18/17 3:39 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/20/17 10:33 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 3c	scratskinner	11/22/17 7:20 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 3c	Forrest of B.org	11/22/17 9:54 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	General-RADIX	11/18/17 6:37 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/20/17 10:40 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	General-RADIX	11/20/17 1:51 p.m.
	Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/16/17 9:57 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	scratskinner	11/17/17 12:38 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	General-RADIX	11/17/17 7:15 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	11/17/17 12:35 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/17/17 3:23 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	11/17/17 6:06 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/17/17 10:05 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	nevets01	11/17/17 12:46 p.m.
	The Chronicles of Quelouva are DONE! (ish)	Forrest of B.org	12/29/17 8:31 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva are DONE! (ish)	General-RADIX	12/30/17 1:47 a.m.
	some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/9/17 12:29 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/9/17 8:40 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/10/17 2:19 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/11/17 9:35 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/12/17 5:14 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/12/17 6:24 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/14/17 7:53 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/14/17 10:13 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/16/17 11:01 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/16/17 2:56 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/17/17 12:13 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/18/17 8:10 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts 2b	scratskinner	9/16/17 9:12 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts 2b	Forrest of B.org	9/16/17 2:58 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts 2b	scratskinner	9/17/17 12:31 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts 2b	Forrest of B.org	9/18/17 7:41 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/11/17 3:37 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/14/17 1:55 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	9/11/17 8:02 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	9/28/17 9:43 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	9/30/17 1:11 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/2/17 9:56 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	10/7/17 12:53 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/9/17 3:14 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	10/17/17 6:38 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/17/17 8:23 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Tycho	10/22/17 4:14 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	nevets01	10/23/17 7:42 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/23/17 10:41 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/26/17 10:49 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	10/27/17 1:34 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/27/17 8:32 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*	scratskinner	11/9/17 10:50 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*	Forrest of B.org	11/10/17 8:39 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*	scratskinner	12/21/17 12:48 p.m.
	noticed you've updated while doing some factchecks	scratskinner	12/21/17 2:26 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*	Forrest of B.org	12/21/17 3:48 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	11/22/17 12:18 p.m.
	Future Perfect expanded	Forrest of B.org	11/29/17 10:00 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/7/17 9:30 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	12/7/17 9:43 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/7/17 10:24 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	12/8/17 7:22 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/9/17 8:19 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/13/17 9:10 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	12/13/17 3:18 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Yossarian	12/15/17 9:58 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	12/16/17 1:22 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/18/17 12:56 p.m.

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