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	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva
	Posted By: scratskinner	Date: 10/17/17 6:38 p.m.
	In Response To: Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva (Forrest of B.org) : They weren't really hidden in caves on purpose. They were lost in the surf : and sand where the sundered continents drifted together when the Fire King : and Ice Queen mutually annihilated each other, and that place later became : the continental divide of the new, merged continent, the highest mountain : ridge down the middle of it all. So did Tom/Sue figure it out from some sort of inference, or were they actually able to see the gems? And also... how close together have the Gems managed to stay? Would it have been plausible for that orc chieftan to get the Gem of Fire instead (or also), assuming no efforts to separate them on Tom/Sue's part? : I'm actually unsure what Elves would think about the Gem of Fire, now that I : think about it. It seems like, being under the sway of the Gem of Ice, : they would be kind of sickened by it, emotionally, like the way we might : look at a pile of cocaine: "jeez what a awful thing, who the hell : thought making this was a good idea, it ought to be destroyed before it : turns someone into some buy-eyed psycho". (I imagine most vampires : would look at the Gem of Ice analogously as something like opium). Are there actual mind-altering substances in the bit of Virtuality Xio saved? (Besides the Gems, of course.) For some reason, I'm imagining plants of the cocaine-analog variety in pots hanging from the ceiling in Vis' castle. (And maybe she has a mad scientist's... er, meth lab. Is meth a stimulant?). Or maybe they've got sun/moon lamps of some sort. All sorts of fun set dressing really. : Tom would definitely know. Hmm. Do they know he knows? (I'd been under the impression they've been trying to avoid attention.) : That's basically the main reason. Elves can't be arsed to do anything and Tom : doesn't want to get near the Gem himself lest he turn him into a vampire. : (Not right away, of course, but again it's like a drug, once he's under : its influence he would feel like that's a good influence that he should : have been under all the time and he should keep getting more exposure to : it because it's making him "better" than he used to be). If he's taking an opium-equivalent, does this counteract the Gem's influence? (I presume that it's not something one would want to try more than once, and not for very long. Too many things that could go wrong.) : It's way too far a trip for that. That's like you live in Louisiana and say : "hey buddy wanna join me on a hike up to Idaho?", or you live in : Paris and say "hey wanna join me on a hike to Moscow?" It's a : half continent away, uphill, through the wilderness. Not a day hike. Huh. Still... no wizards are born near the mountains? or have decided to live there for whatever reason? Or just really like to wander around? Effort expended isn't a factor in the Gems' influence, else you'd have had elves balking at doing the heavy lifting in the lower rungs of society. I get the impression it's basically willingness to interfere that is the sticking point. I guess if he had enough lead time, he could have a road carved there, (or carve it himself, if he has the power and appropriate skillset,) and make arrangements such that only wizards can find the Gem. Then make it a tourist destination (for wizards): "Welcome to the Temple of Great Reason!" Or a straight-up wizard enclave, where it's more reasonable to ask for a hike. Of course, this suffers from the whole catch-22 of "If they could be arsed to do this, there wouldn't be a problem." : I had actually been thinking about some stuff along these lines the day : before you posted this. I was thinking about what Fire and Ice's motives : would be in setting up this whole scenario, and coming up with ideas along : the lines of how in the old Virtuality before the fall, they were : simultaneously enemies and allies: enemies in hell, and allies in heaven. : So I was thinking that maybe the idea was that the Gems would exaggerate : their respective qualities in the people under their influence, but those : qualities have both a light and a dark side, and so long as people turned : to the dark sides of those qualities the vampires and elves would be : enemies and would be weak against the qualities of the other; but if : somehow people could turn to the light sides, and come together in love, : then there would be born a new people (at least, starting with one person) : with all the strengths of both and none of the weaknesses, as the : goddesses had sought to foster in the old heaven, but more literal and : less metaphorical. : I don't really have a good reason why the Queen of Hell would be that reborn : superperson, though. Maybe I should add something about how the intended : process (a true reconciliation between vampires and elves) would be meant : to somehow redeem the Queen. Maybe the Eldest was trapped like that so : that only the redeemed and reborn Queen could come to free him and they : could live happily ever after. The goddesses were intending to inflict : tough love on the world: "get your shit together and live happily : ever after, or die over and over and over again trying until you get it : right". But because Vis forced things and just raped the Elf-King : instead, that broke whatever was supposed to happen and ruined everything : for everyone. : I still need to figure out what exactly was supposed to happen instead, : though. And square it with the whole "The Queen of Hell stoked their evilness" bit. It didn't really sound like they were being particularly virtuous in altering the deal with the Queen of Hell. : The process I had in mind was that, once John was informed by Tom that dreams : are actually memories, the Church just started compiling records of : people's dreams and cross-referencing them and trying to extract : information about the past from those. It's a highly fallible process : because people can lie and misremember and dreams are just fragmented bits : and pieces of many lives to begin with, so the image that the Church has : of the past is about as accurate as our records of what happened with the : Pantheon are (e.g. we have that Oron was "castrated" by Kron, : who "swallowed" his kids besides Xio, who was raised by : "wolves", and "swallowed" Met, and then Aten : "burst forth from his head fully-formed", etc). : I was imagining that they only know of Tom and Sue what the many random : people who had met them over their long lives knew about them, and that : they just got Murdock and his sister to narrate their dreams and compared : those with the information they have about Tom and Sue that way. But you : raise a good question about how they can tell that they're not just faking : it, not just recounting the public doctrine about Tom and Sue, and I don't : have a good answer for that yet. Since there is magic in the setting, and : wizards are involved in the church, it is reasonable that maybe some kind : of mind-magic could verify that the things people claim to see in their : dreams are what they actually see, which seems like it would solve the : problem. Perhaps that's why the wizards have so much power in the Church: everyone else keeps getting played by Tom and Sue claimants, and lose credibility as a result.

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Replies:

	The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/24/17 10:00 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	8/25/17 4:53 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	8/25/17 10:26 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/25/17 11:06 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	8/25/17 11:31 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/25/17 11:37 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	8/25/17 8:45 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/25/17 9:47 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	8/25/17 10:53 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/25/17 11:36 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva — MMOSs	Can-ned Food	8/26/17 7:40 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	8/26/17 5:10 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/27/17 8:01 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	8/27/17 1:13 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	8/27/17 6:22 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Can-ned Food	8/26/17 6:36 p.m.
	Nurbal Colony: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	9/6/17 9:45 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	9/7/17 8:28 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 1	scratskinner	9/7/17 9:24 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	9/7/17 9:50 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony	Can-ned Food	9/8/17 1:42 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony	irons	9/15/17 2:53 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony	Forrest of B.org	9/18/17 1:26 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony	irons	9/19/17 2:11 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/8/17 8:59 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	General-RADIX	9/8/17 9:59 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/8/17 10:44 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	9/9/17 7:52 a.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/9/17 8:13 a.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	9/9/17 3:18 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/9/17 3:56 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/11/17 4:00 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	9/15/17 3:29 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Colony: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/19/17 3:11 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	9/12/17 10:12 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 1	General-RADIX	9/12/17 11:17 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	9/13/17 10:06 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/14/17 9:51 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Legacy: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	9/19/17 2:35 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Enemy: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	9/19/17 10:28 p.m.
	Re: Nurbal Enemy: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	9/20/17 7:48 p.m.
	Columbia Resurgent: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	10/3/17 9:15 p.m.
	Re: Columbia Resurgent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/4/17 9:29 p.m.
	Re: Columbia Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/5/17 9:32 p.m.
	Re: Columbia Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/10/17 9:57 p.m.
	Terra Resurgent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/11/17 9:36 p.m.
	Re: Terra Resurgent: Part 2	scratskinner	10/12/17 12:22 p.m.
	Re: Terra Resurgent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/12/17 12:24 p.m.
	Terra Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/12/17 9:31 p.m.
	Sol Resurgent: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	10/17/17 10:37 p.m.
	Sol Resurgent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/18/17 10:09 p.m.
	Sol Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/19/17 9:49 p.m.
	Re: Sol Resurgent: Part 3	scratskinner	10/19/17 10:45 p.m.
	Re: Sol Resurgent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	10/19/17 11:24 p.m.
	Virtuality Transcendent: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	10/30/17 10:10 p.m.
	Virtuality Transcendent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	10/31/17 9:31 p.m.
	Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/1/17 9:52 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3	scratskinner	11/7/17 9:05 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/7/17 9:20 p.m.
	Virtuality Incarnate: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	11/7/17 9:08 p.m.
	Virtuality Incarnate: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/8/17 8:25 p.m.
	Virtuality Incarnate: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/9/17 8:55 p.m.
	Virtuality Immanent: Part 1	Forrest of B.org	11/14/17 8:55 p.m.
	Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/15/17 9:03 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	scratskinner	11/16/17 1:46 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/16/17 1:20 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	scratskinner	11/17/17 2:40 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/17/17 4:00 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	VikingBoyBilly	11/17/17 5:57 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/17/17 10:08 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	VikingBoyBilly	11/18/17 2:35 a.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/20/17 10:02 a.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	VikingBoyBilly	11/20/17 2:27 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	General-RADIX	11/20/17 6:32 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/20/17 8:21 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	General-RADIX	11/20/17 9:19 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	VikingBoyBilly	11/22/17 1:46 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	General-RADIX	11/22/17 3:30 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	nevets01	11/25/17 4:37 a.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	PerseusSpartacus	11/25/17 10:14 a.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	Forrest of B.org	11/26/17 9:25 p.m.
	Re: Eternal stuff	General-RADIX	11/26/17 10:21 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	scratskinner	11/18/17 3:39 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/20/17 10:33 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 3c	scratskinner	11/22/17 7:20 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 3c	Forrest of B.org	11/22/17 9:54 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	General-RADIX	11/18/17 6:37 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	Forrest of B.org	11/20/17 10:40 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2	General-RADIX	11/20/17 1:51 p.m.
	Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/16/17 9:57 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	scratskinner	11/17/17 12:38 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	General-RADIX	11/17/17 7:15 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	11/17/17 12:35 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/17/17 3:23 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	VikingBoyBilly	11/17/17 6:06 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	Forrest of B.org	11/17/17 10:05 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3	nevets01	11/17/17 12:46 p.m.
	The Chronicles of Quelouva are DONE! (ish)	Forrest of B.org	12/29/17 8:31 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva are DONE! (ish)	General-RADIX	12/30/17 1:47 a.m.
	some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/9/17 12:29 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/9/17 8:40 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/10/17 2:19 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/11/17 9:35 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/12/17 5:14 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/12/17 6:24 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/14/17 7:53 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/14/17 10:13 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/16/17 11:01 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/16/17 2:56 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	scratskinner	9/17/17 12:13 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/18/17 8:10 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts 2b	scratskinner	9/16/17 9:12 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts 2b	Forrest of B.org	9/16/17 2:58 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts 2b	scratskinner	9/17/17 12:31 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts 2b	Forrest of B.org	9/18/17 7:41 a.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/11/17 3:37 p.m.
	Re: some random thoughts	Forrest of B.org	9/14/17 1:55 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	9/11/17 8:02 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	9/28/17 9:43 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	9/30/17 1:11 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/2/17 9:56 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	10/7/17 12:53 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/9/17 3:14 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	10/17/17 6:38 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/17/17 8:23 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Tycho	10/22/17 4:14 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	nevets01	10/23/17 7:42 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/23/17 10:41 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/26/17 10:49 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	10/27/17 1:34 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	10/27/17 8:32 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*	scratskinner	11/9/17 10:50 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*	Forrest of B.org	11/10/17 8:39 a.m.
	Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*	scratskinner	12/21/17 12:48 p.m.
	noticed you've updated while doing some factchecks	scratskinner	12/21/17 2:26 p.m.
	Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*	Forrest of B.org	12/21/17 3:48 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	11/22/17 12:18 p.m.
	Future Perfect expanded	Forrest of B.org	11/29/17 10:00 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/7/17 9:30 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	12/7/17 9:43 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/7/17 10:24 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	12/8/17 7:22 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/9/17 8:19 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/13/17 9:10 a.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	General-RADIX	12/13/17 3:18 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Yossarian	12/15/17 9:58 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	scratskinner	12/16/17 1:22 p.m.
	Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva	Forrest of B.org	12/18/17 12:56 p.m.

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