Re: *doesn't resist temptation of debate*


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Re: *doesn't resist temptation of debate*

Posted By: Me_43 Date: 8/20/05 5:22 p.m.
In Response To: Re: *doesn't resist temptation of debate* (goran)

: Yes it's quite common nowadays. I've been there too.
: Can you think of NOT existing? It's impossilbe because you can't experince
: not existing, and still...what's it like to not exist.
: If you belive in Einsteins teachings, that we're nothing but energy, and
: energy can't be destroyed, it can only be transformed. Then every tiny
: tiny tiny little part in ourself is eternal. They cannot "not
: exist".
: Isn't it an interresting thought?
: -goran
Certainly. This is somewhat remniscent of the film 'I heart huckabees' (No relation to the Halo 2 beast 'I love huckabees'; what the hell is a huckabee anyway?!), where one group says everything and everyone are one and the same...
Indeed, one of the concepts that blew my mind some time ago was a lot like this, a la, there is no reason we should exist, and if we didn't, there'd be no us to realise this, that 'nothing' really would be nothing. The thought really does pwn your mind.
I've been reading Biocosm, which explores some intruiging anthropic concepts, including the fact that there's millions of variables in physics, six of which are particularly important, and if they varied by the tiniest tiniest amount (usually something like 1 in 10^25 of their current value) the Universe would have come out completely differently and life would never have begun. The chances of all these factors being correct are just... not even worth mentioning. Let's just say 'hopeless'.
Einstein said God (the creator, that is) does not play dice, and I am inclined to agree. If you extend the Newtonian-Einsteinian model a bit, the variations in the Universe and CMB from uniformity when it all began would have had to have followed some sort of pattern (otherwise they would be random, and that can't be right; when you think about it, there was nowhere for the 'randomness' to come from!) that can be defined quite simply with some maths, and as time goes on various forces (ones which can, again, be defined quite simply with some fairly easy math) affect this goo and form patterns... so if you had this formula you could decode the Universe.
On the other hand, quantum physics complicates matters, and (snip, can't be bothered explaining lots and lots and lots of wacky ideas) means that the Universe would assemble itself around your view of it... but you're defined by this... quantum physics is whack...
Anyway. With the hopeless odds, it seems probable that life would only 'see' universes which were hospitable to it, that is, our consciousness simply doesn't enter uninhabitable ones. But that means there has to be a consciousness to begin with, which isn't the result of a certain matter formation, and that can't be right...
*dies*

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: Certainly. This is somewhat remniscent of the film 'I heart huckabees' (No : relation to the Halo 2 beast 'I love huckabees'; what the hell is a : huckabee anyway?!), where one group says everything and everyone are one : and the same... : Indeed, one of the concepts that blew my mind some time ago was a lot like : this, a la, there is no reason we should exist, and if we didn't, there'd : be no us to realise this, that 'nothing' really would be nothing. The : thought really does pwn your mind. : I've been reading Biocosm, which explores some intruiging anthropic concepts, : including the fact that there's millions of variables in physics, six of : which are particularly important, and if they varied by the tiniest : tiniest amount (usually something like 1 in 10^25 of their current value) : the Universe would have come out completely differently and life would : never have begun. The chances of all these factors being correct are : just... not even worth mentioning. Let's just say 'hopeless'. : Einstein said God (the creator, that is) does not play dice, and I am : inclined to agree. If you extend the Newtonian-Einsteinian model a bit, : the variations in the Universe and CMB from uniformity when it all began : would have had to have followed some sort of pattern (otherwise they would : be random, and that can't be right; when you think about it, there was : nowhere for the 'randomness' to come from!) that can be defined quite : simply with some maths, and as time goes on various forces (ones which : can, again, be defined quite simply with some fairly easy math) affect : this goo and form patterns... so if you had this formula you could decode : the Universe. : On the other hand, quantum physics complicates matters, and (snip, can't be : bothered explaining lots and lots and lots of wacky ideas) means that the : Universe would assemble itself around your view of it... but you're : defined by this... quantum physics is whack... : Anyway. With the hopeless odds, it seems probable that life would only 'see' : universes which were hospitable to it, that is, our consciousness simply : doesn't enter uninhabitable ones. But that means there has to be a : consciousness to begin with, which isn't the result of a certain matter : formation, and that can't be right... : *dies*

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OMG	thomas	8/19/05 1:55 p.m.
Re: OMG	ukimalefu	8/19/05 2:19 p.m.
Re: OMG	kyjel	8/19/05 2:33 p.m.
Re: OMG	goran	8/19/05 3:06 p.m.
I'm going to resist the temptation of that debate. NM	MrHen	8/19/05 5:02 p.m.
mysterious choice (plays x-files music) NM	goran	8/20/05 3:33 a.m.
doesn't resist temptation of debate	Me_43	8/19/05 10:10 p.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	goran	8/20/05 3:29 a.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	Me_43	8/20/05 5:22 p.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	dual	8/20/05 10:47 p.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	mt_mikal	8/21/05 2:16 a.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	goran	8/21/05 4:47 a.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	Me_43	8/21/05 7:07 p.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	Dave	8/22/05 12:40 a.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	Me_43	8/22/05 1:13 a.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	Dave	8/22/05 3:11 a.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	Me_43	8/22/05 7:15 p.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	Elliott dagen	8/23/05 2:09 p.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	Me_43	8/23/05 7:56 p.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	C Lund	8/22/05 6:46 a.m.
Re: doesn't resist temptation of debate	goran	8/22/05 9:40 a.m.
Also not going to resist the arguement	Cpt. Sqweky	8/20/05 8:20 p.m.
Re: Also not going to resist the arguement	goran	8/21/05 4:24 a.m.
Re: Also not going to resist the arguement	Dave	8/22/05 12:43 a.m.
Re: Also not going to resist the arguement	Steve Levinson	8/22/05 5:21 a.m.
Re: Also not going to resist the arguement	Dave	8/23/05 2:43 a.m.
Re: OMG	Elliott dagen	8/21/05 11:15 a.m.
if all your friends jump of a bridge... (v. long)	MrHen	8/23/05 6:23 a.m.
Re: if all your friends jump of a bridge... (v. lo	goran	8/23/05 9:59 a.m.
Re: if all your friends jump of a bridge... (v. lo	Vid Boi	8/23/05 1:04 p.m.
Re: if all your friends jump of a bridge... (v. lo	MrHen	9/1/05 10:00 a.m.
Re: if all your friends jump of a bridge... (v. lo	goran	9/2/05 2:30 a.m.
Re: OMG	blake37	8/19/05 3:19 p.m.
Re: OMG	ukimalefu	8/19/05 9:50 p.m.
Re: OMG	Anon	8/19/05 10:05 p.m.
Boring... nothing happened! NM	D-M.A.	8/19/05 10:14 p.m.
Re: OMG	Vid Boi	8/20/05 11:08 a.m.
Re: OMG	dual	8/20/05 10:55 p.m.
Re: OMG	goran	8/21/05 4:57 a.m.



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	Message: : Certainly. This is somewhat remniscent of the film 'I heart huckabees' (No : relation to the Halo 2 beast 'I love huckabees'; what the hell is a : huckabee anyway?!), where one group says everything and everyone are one : and the same... : Indeed, one of the concepts that blew my mind some time ago was a lot like : this, a la, there is no reason we should exist, and if we didn't, there'd : be no us to realise this, that 'nothing' really would be nothing. The : thought really does pwn your mind. : I've been reading Biocosm, which explores some intruiging anthropic concepts, : including the fact that there's millions of variables in physics, six of : which are particularly important, and if they varied by the tiniest : tiniest amount (usually something like 1 in 10^25 of their current value) : the Universe would have come out completely differently and life would : never have begun. The chances of all these factors being correct are : just... not even worth mentioning. Let's just say 'hopeless'. : Einstein said God (the creator, that is) does not play dice, and I am : inclined to agree. If you extend the Newtonian-Einsteinian model a bit, : the variations in the Universe and CMB from uniformity when it all began : would have had to have followed some sort of pattern (otherwise they would : be random, and that can't be right; when you think about it, there was : nowhere for the 'randomness' to come from!) that can be defined quite : simply with some maths, and as time goes on various forces (ones which : can, again, be defined quite simply with some fairly easy math) affect : this goo and form patterns... so if you had this formula you could decode : the Universe. : On the other hand, quantum physics complicates matters, and (snip, can't be : bothered explaining lots and lots and lots of wacky ideas) means that the : Universe would assemble itself around your view of it... but you're : defined by this... quantum physics is whack... : Anyway. With the hopeless odds, it seems probable that life would only 'see' : universes which were hospitable to it, that is, our consciousness simply : doesn't enter uninhabitable ones. But that means there has to be a : consciousness to begin with, which isn't the result of a certain matter : formation, and that can't be right... : dies
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