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| Re: Hitting 5000 - How will they hold you for Reac | |
| Posted By: RC Master | Date: 12/29/09 8:54 p.m. |
In Response To: Hitting 5000 - How will they hold you for Reach? (FyreWulff) : So, hooray. I've finally hit the 5000 exp mark for Halo 3, Wow. I don't think I've even hit 1500. The current system holds no attraction for me at all. I've got Colonel Grade 3, can't be bothered to slog for a 45, or a Force Colonel, playlist ranks still seem like a slog (since the effect you said of having low exp, even 1 loss of exp is a big hit), Rocket Race ain't a permenent playlist anymore, Action Sack punishes you for quiting and holds no benefit towards aforementioned goal system (ie, 0 exp) and can still lose exp for quitting, social BTB has fundamentally flawed maps ..... yeah. Pretty much all my gripes with Halo 3 MM right there :) Plus now I've got all the cheevos. Which, as a matter of fact, soured me to the MP experience in the process of attempting them. Just frustrating going into the unpredictibility of MP trying to get something specific (and in normal circumstances entirely impossible to get! Looking at you Saved This Film!). Speaking of which, thats one thing they need to get rid of in Reach: Multiplayer Achievements. They're horrible. -- Anyway, diversion aside, your post as a whole is a great one. I agree with the vast majority of your points. : EXP matters less and less the more you have. This is a good point. I've found that in the begining I was staunchily against quitting for any and all reasons. But now, with more than a thousand exp under my belt, and double exp weekend possibilities, I literally DO NOT CARE about losing an EXP for quiting. If I'm not having fun, and there is still a reasonably long time to go in the game, I will quit. Now, rather than brandishing a larger stick for the veterans, (hey, they have proven loyalty, why are you punishing them so!?) I think the better solution is to offer a larger carrot for completion. CoD has this with the match bonuses; they get larger the higher level you are. Its good, because you still make good progress to the next level even if you don't do so well. Just for partcipation. : Surrender option : This one I like.
: Quitting loses a % of EXP
Would only work, I think, if all your exp gain was proportional to level. So quitting was still a good hit, but you could earn it back in a roughly equivalent amount of time. : My idea: quitting drops your EXP gain :
So, I guess, theoreetically, you good de-rank your trueskill to play against less skilled opponents, but you sure as hell wouldn't be earning much exp once you got there. Hmm. Liking that more and more. : Ranks and Trueskill are too closely tied together Reference for you: E Pluribus Unum: Matchmaking in HALO 3 Presentation giving by Butchy. In it, on slide 45 he says: "No way to advance to higher ratings without ranked play
Then on Slide 49, with the results of 'Overall skill distribution' you can very clearly see the effects the current system has had (my own observations). There are marked increases in numbers of players at high skills of 20, 30, 35, 40, 45 and 50. Directly coinciding with the requirements for the different ranks. Whereas it should be a nice curve. Don't know if Shishka has ever commented. Though I can imagine he might have done. : What they could do for Reach : Completely unhook Trueskill from EXP. Yep. It was a bad move to make in the first place. : Secondly, the issue that people think they can actually lose their General
I don't think the issue just affects Generals either. Looking at the graph I point out above, it happens at all levels of play. Since Trueskill itself can go up AND down, and the ranks are dependant upon that, it does create the misconception that their rank is risk if they ever play it again. Until you said so here, I wasn't 100% sure, or had forgot it if the answer had ever been given to me in the past. So I too am (was?) reluctant to play on my 40 in Lone Wolves or Team Slayer, even given the fact that my win/loss up to that point, and K/D ratio, indicate I could be several notches higher. Even going in alone in TS. Anyway, lets get over that anecdote :P : The games of Halo 3 matchmaking are too long. : No wonder Team Slayer and Social Slayer are the
: For the time investment for each EXP point, it seems to be a very low reward I don't necessarily think the games are too long. I main impression I get from your bit here is that the games are too long for the reward offered. I enjoy a game where there can be many ebbs and flows over time, which is why I like BTB. A pure exp system, as you said, would go a way to fix this. Yes games in BTB could/would be longer, but the reward would also be greater. Also: reaching the score limit rather than getting a time-out could offer a sizeable exp reward to encourage playing aggressively rather than protecting an early established lead. : you could be dumped into a team 30 seconds away from losing. Oh, I've been put into games where I couldn't move more than a metre and fire a few shots before the game ended. That system certainly has its own fair share of issues! : What they could do for Reach : Take the best of each system, and add some
This is what Halo is at is very core I would say. I would certainly support such a move. : : Well, I'm going to stop here since I don't want to make this post too long,
: Also ignore for the moment the problems of boosting/second accounting,
One of the key things I think the Gears of War 2 exp system got, pretty much right, was the appropriation of points for assists based on the amount of damage you'd done. For example, if I shoot an enemy to within an inch of his life, he ducks behind cover and a teammate nicks him in the foot with a stray bulllet, killing him. In Halo, he gets the entire credit for that kill, I get a depleted ammo count and an extra 1 in an assist stat column that isn't colated anywhere.
In Halo it would get a bit more complex when you think about, how do you give appropriate points/exp for, say, warthog drivers? I would say something that would be designed along the lines of promoting good driving. For example: a proportion of the points up to some maximum (lets say, half of what the gunner would otherwise get) for 'giving them a good angle.' Or, keeping their target firmly in their sights and not making them having to readjust all the time. There are other things you could include as well to make sure assisting an important event (I.E. bomb plants, flag plants etc) are recognised as well as the actual event, but theres a starter for you. Hopefully Bungie is thinking similar things. On Call of Duty MW2:
Under Halo's mantra I think they'd have to be a bit different so they won't encourage weapon whoring or whatever, but having all these little micro-objectives keeps you on task nearly 100% of the time. While your overall objective in COD MP might be to reach level 70, below that you have:
As well as all the usual: Find person, kill person, advance overall objective in game, get next killstreak etc. I found that it rarely felt too long between my next reward. Be that a nice healthy chunk of EXP from completing a challenge, or the next level up. Halo 3 on the other hand, get to Colonel Grade 3 (in my case) and I'm asked to double what I've just done for the next reward. Thats a bit daunting. Its something I've found with Assassins Creed 2 as well. There are so many little things to do and find that I'm always on task doing something, getting a little baby steps further on, all the time. Maybe thats just me. But I think theres something to it. So, a huge ton of visual / cosmetic customisation / upgrades being unlocked along the way would be cool. I think Bungie already realises this too, with all the crys for DLC armour and the like, so hopefully they're working on it.
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