Re: Movie


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Re: Movie

Posted By: NTiOzymandias Date: 5/31/06 2:40 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Movie (Wail of Suicide)

: No way. The entire flavor of the setting comes from the
: Marine's interactions with the AIs. The BOBs don't have
: anywhere near that level of interaction. The only way I
: think you could swing this is if the BOB were following
: the marine around.
The issue with leaving the entire story in the eyes of the sole marine is the difference in the nature of individual events which make up the plots of games as opposed to movies. Of course, an attempt to qualify (much less qualify) that difference is anything but a mature science; but I like to think of movies as "broad and shallow" and games as "narrow and deep."
In a game, the player takes the role of an individual character, and has control over his actions to a great extent. Half-Life is a good example of this; as far as I know the game NEVER takes the controller out of your hands. You have absolute control over whether you battle through hundreds of aliens to escape from the lab, or just stick around and blow up the microwave for hours on end. Of course, the player, i.e. Gordon Freeman, is the only character who sticks around for an appreciable length of time. The game concentrates on the events surrounding the player at the expense of any knowledge of what happens to other characters.... but it doesn't matter, because those characters only exist for as long as the player chooses to hang out around them. (I didn't use Marathon as an example because it takes liberties with this structure -- to great effect, of course, but still enough to dilute my explanation.)
In a film, the audience is not a character at all, but an invisible phantasm who witnesses the plot. The audience has NO control over what happens, or to who, but the characters interact to produce interesting situations which engage the audience. Consider "Pulp Fiction." There's not really a whole lot that happens in that movie.... If you stripped out all the dialog and made the rest into a game, it'd take maybe half an hour to play, and probably be too boring for most players to last that long. But the attitudes of the characters, and the way they interact, is charming and memorable. (That's not to say that dialog itself is so important; I'd offer "The Piano" almost as readily, for example, but if you want to see how that works, go watch it yourself.)
By the way, yes, there are plenty of games which are scripted more like a film, and vice versa, but generally, they don't work too well, do they? ;) (that is, unless there's plenty of cleverness involved in exactly how that's pulled off.)
Anyway, to get back to Marathon.... It's worth pointing out that the ONLY character development which the marine gets is in the manual, before the player even takes control of him (ie. the memories of his father and such). Apart from that, the marine is strictly an avatar for the hapless adventurer at the keyboard. The AIs interact with the player by giving him orders and/or bothering him with confusing philosophy and songs about blueberries... But in that respect his nature approaches that of the invisible audience figure you get with a film, so if we write a direct adaptation of a Marathon film, we might as well ignore him as a character.
But then, where does that leave us? Every lifeform you encounter in the game is effectively scenery (well, cannon fodder, but you get the idea). So we have three characters left with actual scripts, and they spend the entire film talking to an armed mute. If you've seen a film like that and liked it, I'll acquire a hat and eat it.
The point of this huge long rant is that an adaptation of Marathon cannot function with the plot intact exactly as it is. There are too few characters and their interaction is too.... well, straightforward, I guess.... for the same script to carry over. Amending that would necessarily involve adding new material and rearranging what's already there. And since none of us want the result to be a half-complete patchwork of awkward moments, Uwe Boll style, THAT would necessarily involve enough work to create new, preferably human characters who can stand between Leela and Durandal with a straight face.
I don't know who else is up to that task, but I'd be more than willing to give it a go.
Anyway, as far as the game is concerned, any human characters besides the marine would be Bobs. But who's to say that they all need to stick together through the whole ordeal? Splitting them up and leaving them helpless, and probably chasing a few of them into a corner and forcing them to watch helplessly as the others die around them, would surely score a few points for the dark atmosphere we're all so excited about. ;)

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Interface & Other Things Nick Hoad 5/21/06 11:11 a.m.

Re: Interface & Other Things Tydeus 5/21/06 3:42 p.m.

Uh... guys? ukimalefu 5/21/06 7:38 p.m.

Movie CubicCircle 5/21/06 9:33 p.m.

Re: Movie Forrest of B.org 5/21/06 10:04 p.m.

Re: Movie thermoplyae 5/21/06 10:49 p.m.

Re: Movie C Lund 5/22/06 1:28 a.m.

Re: Movie CubicCircle 5/22/06 6:45 a.m.

Re: Movie thermoplyae 5/22/06 8:05 a.m.

Re: Movie C Lund 5/22/06 8:37 a.m.

Re: Movie Wail of Suicide 5/22/06 9:55 a.m.

Re: Movie thermoplyae 5/22/06 10:14 a.m.

Re: Movie CubicCircle 5/22/06 10:14 a.m.

Re: Movie NTiOzymandias 5/31/06 2:40 p.m.

Re: Movie John Denton 5/31/06 6:58 p.m.

Re: Movie Wail of Suicide 6/1/06 1:06 a.m.

Re: Movie thermoplyae 6/1/06 8:13 a.m.

Re: Movie John Denton 6/1/06 9:43 a.m.

Re: Movie Wail of Suicide 6/1/06 10:26 p.m.

Re: Movie John Denton 6/2/06 12:48 p.m.

Re: Movie Forrest of B.org 6/1/06 9:12 a.m.

Re: Movie John Denton 6/1/06 9:55 a.m.

Re: Movie Forrest of B.org 6/1/06 4:11 p.m.

Re: Movie John Denton 6/1/06 4:50 p.m.

Re: Movie CubicCircle 6/2/06 5:00 a.m.

Re: Movie John Denton 6/2/06 12:54 p.m.

Re: Movie ukimalefu 6/2/06 10:03 p.m.

Re: Movie CubicCircle 6/2/06 10:21 p.m.

How I'do it reagan64 5/24/06 2:57 p.m.

Re: How I'do it CubicCircle 5/24/06 10:15 p.m.

Good point. Scratch that idea. *NM* reagan64 6/2/06 7:01 a.m.

movie? forget it. fokker 6/4/06 2:58 a.m.

Re: movie? forget it. thermoplyae 6/4/06 4:14 a.m.

Re: movie? forget it. D-M.A. 6/4/06 6:18 a.m.

You should have spoken up earlier D: *NM* thermoplyae 6/4/06 7:55 a.m.

Re: movie? forget it. John Denton 6/4/06 10:34 a.m.

Re: movie? forget it. John Denton 6/4/06 10:30 a.m.

Re: movie? forget it. Forrest of B.org 6/4/06 9:23 p.m.

Re: movie? forget it. How about a short film? MrAlexZander 6/5/06 11:32 a.m.

Re: movie? forget it. How about a short film? John Denton 6/5/06 12:15 p.m.

Re: movie? forget it. How about a short film? Forrest of B.org 6/5/06 2:22 p.m.

Re: short film The Sullen "D" Button 6/6/06 1:21 a.m.

Re: short film CubicCircle 6/6/06 2:16 a.m.

something unrelated to short films Andrew Nagy 6/7/06 6:09 a.m.

Re: something unrelated to short films John Denton 6/7/06 12:02 p.m.

Re: movie? forget it. Vid Boi 6/6/06 11:18 a.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: The issue with leaving the entire story in the eyes of the sole marine is the : difference in the nature of individual events which make up the plots of : games as opposed to movies. Of course, an attempt to qualify (much less : qualify) that difference is anything but a mature science; but I like to : think of movies as "broad and shallow" and games as "narrow : and deep." : In a game, the player takes the role of an individual character, and has : control over his actions to a great extent. Half-Life is a good example of : this; as far as I know the game NEVER takes the controller out of your : hands. You have absolute control over whether you battle through hundreds : of aliens to escape from the lab, or just stick around and blow up the : microwave for hours on end. Of course, the player, i.e. Gordon Freeman, is : the only character who sticks around for an appreciable length of time. : The game concentrates on the events surrounding the player at the expense : of any knowledge of what happens to other characters.... but it doesn't : matter, because those characters only exist for as long as the player : chooses to hang out around them. (I didn't use Marathon as an example : because it takes liberties with this structure -- to great effect, of : course, but still enough to dilute my explanation.) : In a film, the audience is not a character at all, but an invisible phantasm : who witnesses the plot. The audience has NO control over what happens, or : to who, but the characters interact to produce interesting situations : which engage the audience. Consider "Pulp Fiction." There's not : really a whole lot that happens in that movie.... If you stripped out all : the dialog and made the rest into a game, it'd take maybe half an hour to : play, and probably be too boring for most players to last that long. But : the attitudes of the characters, and the way they interact, is charming : and memorable. (That's not to say that dialog itself is so important; I'd : offer "The Piano" almost as readily, for example, but if you : want to see how that works, go watch it yourself.) : By the way, yes, there are plenty of games which are scripted more like a : film, and vice versa, but generally, they don't work too well, do they? ;) : (that is, unless there's plenty of cleverness involved in exactly how : that's pulled off.) : Anyway, to get back to Marathon.... It's worth pointing out that the ONLY : character development which the marine gets is in the manual, before the : player even takes control of him (ie. the memories of his father and : such). Apart from that, the marine is strictly an avatar for the hapless : adventurer at the keyboard. The AIs interact with the player by giving him : orders and/or bothering him with confusing philosophy and songs about : blueberries... But in that respect his nature approaches that of the : invisible audience figure you get with a film, so if we write a direct : adaptation of a Marathon film, we might as well ignore him as a character. : But then, where does that leave us? Every lifeform you encounter in the game : is effectively scenery (well, cannon fodder, but you get the idea). So we : have three characters left with actual scripts, and they spend the entire : film talking to an armed mute. If you've seen a film like that and liked : it, I'll acquire a hat and eat it. : The point of this huge long rant is that an adaptation of Marathon cannot : function with the plot intact exactly as it is. There are too few : characters and their interaction is too.... well, straightforward, I : guess.... for the same script to carry over. Amending that would : necessarily involve adding new material and rearranging what's already : there. And since none of us want the result to be a half-complete : patchwork of awkward moments, Uwe Boll style, THAT would necessarily : involve enough work to create new, preferably human characters who can : stand between Leela and Durandal with a straight face. : I don't know who else is up to that task, but I'd be more than willing to : give it a go. : Anyway, as far as the game is concerned, any human characters besides the : marine would be Bobs. But who's to say that they all need to stick : together through the whole ordeal? Splitting them up and leaving them : helpless, and probably chasing a few of them into a corner and forcing : them to watch helplessly as the others die around them, would surely score : a few points for the dark atmosphere we're all so excited about. ;)

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Interface & Other Things	Nick Hoad	5/21/06 11:11 a.m.
Re: Interface & Other Things	Tydeus	5/21/06 3:42 p.m.
Uh... guys?	ukimalefu	5/21/06 7:38 p.m.
Movie	CubicCircle	5/21/06 9:33 p.m.
Re: Movie	Forrest of B.org	5/21/06 10:04 p.m.
Re: Movie	thermoplyae	5/21/06 10:49 p.m.
Re: Movie	C Lund	5/22/06 1:28 a.m.
Re: Movie	CubicCircle	5/22/06 6:45 a.m.
Re: Movie	thermoplyae	5/22/06 8:05 a.m.
Re: Movie	C Lund	5/22/06 8:37 a.m.
Re: Movie	Wail of Suicide	5/22/06 9:55 a.m.
Re: Movie	thermoplyae	5/22/06 10:14 a.m.
Re: Movie	CubicCircle	5/22/06 10:14 a.m.
Re: Movie	NTiOzymandias	5/31/06 2:40 p.m.
Re: Movie	John Denton	5/31/06 6:58 p.m.
Re: Movie	Wail of Suicide	6/1/06 1:06 a.m.
Re: Movie	thermoplyae	6/1/06 8:13 a.m.
Re: Movie	John Denton	6/1/06 9:43 a.m.
Re: Movie	Wail of Suicide	6/1/06 10:26 p.m.
Re: Movie	John Denton	6/2/06 12:48 p.m.
Re: Movie	Forrest of B.org	6/1/06 9:12 a.m.
Re: Movie	John Denton	6/1/06 9:55 a.m.
Re: Movie	Forrest of B.org	6/1/06 4:11 p.m.
Re: Movie	John Denton	6/1/06 4:50 p.m.
Re: Movie	CubicCircle	6/2/06 5:00 a.m.
Re: Movie	John Denton	6/2/06 12:54 p.m.
Re: Movie	ukimalefu	6/2/06 10:03 p.m.
Re: Movie	CubicCircle	6/2/06 10:21 p.m.
How I'do it	reagan64	5/24/06 2:57 p.m.
Re: How I'do it	CubicCircle	5/24/06 10:15 p.m.
Good point. Scratch that idea. NM	reagan64	6/2/06 7:01 a.m.
movie? forget it.	fokker	6/4/06 2:58 a.m.
Re: movie? forget it.	thermoplyae	6/4/06 4:14 a.m.
Re: movie? forget it.	D-M.A.	6/4/06 6:18 a.m.
You should have spoken up earlier D: NM	thermoplyae	6/4/06 7:55 a.m.
Re: movie? forget it.	John Denton	6/4/06 10:34 a.m.
Re: movie? forget it.	John Denton	6/4/06 10:30 a.m.
Re: movie? forget it.	Forrest of B.org	6/4/06 9:23 p.m.
Re: movie? forget it. How about a short film?	MrAlexZander	6/5/06 11:32 a.m.
Re: movie? forget it. How about a short film?	John Denton	6/5/06 12:15 p.m.
Re: movie? forget it. How about a short film?	Forrest of B.org	6/5/06 2:22 p.m.
Re: short film	The Sullen "D" Button	6/6/06 1:21 a.m.
Re: short film	CubicCircle	6/6/06 2:16 a.m.
something unrelated to short films	Andrew Nagy	6/7/06 6:09 a.m.
Re: something unrelated to short films	John Denton	6/7/06 12:02 p.m.
Re: movie? forget it.	Vid Boi	6/6/06 11:18 a.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : The issue with leaving the entire story in the eyes of the sole marine is the : difference in the nature of individual events which make up the plots of : games as opposed to movies. Of course, an attempt to qualify (much less : qualify) that difference is anything but a mature science; but I like to : think of movies as "broad and shallow" and games as "narrow : and deep." : In a game, the player takes the role of an individual character, and has : control over his actions to a great extent. Half-Life is a good example of : this; as far as I know the game NEVER takes the controller out of your : hands. You have absolute control over whether you battle through hundreds : of aliens to escape from the lab, or just stick around and blow up the : microwave for hours on end. Of course, the player, i.e. Gordon Freeman, is : the only character who sticks around for an appreciable length of time. : The game concentrates on the events surrounding the player at the expense : of any knowledge of what happens to other characters.... but it doesn't : matter, because those characters only exist for as long as the player : chooses to hang out around them. (I didn't use Marathon as an example : because it takes liberties with this structure -- to great effect, of : course, but still enough to dilute my explanation.) : In a film, the audience is not a character at all, but an invisible phantasm : who witnesses the plot. The audience has NO control over what happens, or : to who, but the characters interact to produce interesting situations : which engage the audience. Consider "Pulp Fiction." There's not : really a whole lot that happens in that movie.... If you stripped out all : the dialog and made the rest into a game, it'd take maybe half an hour to : play, and probably be too boring for most players to last that long. But : the attitudes of the characters, and the way they interact, is charming : and memorable. (That's not to say that dialog itself is so important; I'd : offer "The Piano" almost as readily, for example, but if you : want to see how that works, go watch it yourself.) : By the way, yes, there are plenty of games which are scripted more like a : film, and vice versa, but generally, they don't work too well, do they? ;) : (that is, unless there's plenty of cleverness involved in exactly how : that's pulled off.) : Anyway, to get back to Marathon.... It's worth pointing out that the ONLY : character development which the marine gets is in the manual, before the : player even takes control of him (ie. the memories of his father and : such). Apart from that, the marine is strictly an avatar for the hapless : adventurer at the keyboard. The AIs interact with the player by giving him : orders and/or bothering him with confusing philosophy and songs about : blueberries... But in that respect his nature approaches that of the : invisible audience figure you get with a film, so if we write a direct : adaptation of a Marathon film, we might as well ignore him as a character. : But then, where does that leave us? Every lifeform you encounter in the game : is effectively scenery (well, cannon fodder, but you get the idea). So we : have three characters left with actual scripts, and they spend the entire : film talking to an armed mute. If you've seen a film like that and liked : it, I'll acquire a hat and eat it. : The point of this huge long rant is that an adaptation of Marathon cannot : function with the plot intact exactly as it is. There are too few : characters and their interaction is too.... well, straightforward, I : guess.... for the same script to carry over. Amending that would : necessarily involve adding new material and rearranging what's already : there. And since none of us want the result to be a half-complete : patchwork of awkward moments, Uwe Boll style, THAT would necessarily : involve enough work to create new, preferably human characters who can : stand between Leela and Durandal with a straight face. : I don't know who else is up to that task, but I'd be more than willing to : give it a go. : Anyway, as far as the game is concerned, any human characters besides the : marine would be Bobs. But who's to say that they all need to stick : together through the whole ordeal? Splitting them up and leaving them : helpless, and probably chasing a few of them into a corner and forcing : them to watch helplessly as the others die around them, would surely score : a few points for the dark atmosphere we're all so excited about. ;)
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