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Re: Let's Talk Halo 4
Posted By: Architechnid	Date: 11/16/12 7:03 a.m.
In Response To: Let's Talk Halo 4 (Cody Miller) : First of all I'd like to congratulate 343 on making a fun game. I really mean : this, and I think they should all walk away feeling good. This isn't to : say that Halo 4 is perfect - it's far from it. There are many flaws, some : minor and a few major, but this is the studio's first game so mistakes are : expected. The true test is whether they can keep improving things as time : goes on and learning from them, but more importantly I feel absolutely : comfortable that Halo is in their hands. Agree. : The game is of course fun, and I feel faster paced which isn't necessarily a : bad thing. Some of the new weapons and armor abilities are generally good : and add complexity to the game, and overall it was pretty enjoyable. I : think the snipers are perfectly balanced on Legendary - at full health one : shot almost kills you. This way, when you die you know it's your fault. If : you progress with full shields, you can get hit and take the mistake, but : go out without full shields and you run the risk of dying. Perfect. Don't disagree. : I'm personally in favor of health, so I was sad to see it go after coming : back in Reach. I also was not bothered by the sounds like some people. Health...whatever. 6 one way, half dozen the other. : Legendary is WAY easier this time around. Shockingly easy really. This might : end up being a problem for me, I don't know. Haven't played it on Legendary yet. So I'll take your word on it. : Interestingly, the MC talks in first person now, which is I believe a first : for the series. It's not good or bad, just a break from precedent. I'd fall to the good side, as it was implemented in the game. : Story wise, 343 did a pretty good job. In terms of presentation and : structure, it beat the pants off Halo 3, ODST, and Reach. Each step of the : way the story was unfolding, and each mission led logically and : necessarily into the next so that the plot was always progressing, with : little filler. I always knew what I was doing and what was at stake. Agree. : I understand what 343 was trying to do with Del Rio, but something like that : doesn't work unless he's actually a threat or an obstacle. He freaks out : (I literally laughed the first time I saw him scream ARREST THAT MAN!), : but there are no consequences and this entire scene accomplishes nothing. : The story is in the same place at the beginning of it as it was at the : end. Going into the scene, the MC is planning on stopping the Didact. : After the scene, the MC goes to stop the Didact. In screenwriting, the : whole point of a scene is generally for something to change. If nothing : really changes, then the scene serves no purpose. This scene did not serve : a purpose. I think your point of view here, while valid in some respects, is simplistic. (at least the last 2 sentences in this paragraph, I think the rest is acutally not so much.) While I agree that the scene could have had more weight to it, I think it did serve a purpose. It progressed the storyline of Cortana's rampancy. It also showed that MC is not an order following automoton, and he has the ability to apply his critical thinking skills in his decisions to follow orders. It's also a classic storyline, and made you laugh for the same reasons it was funny in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Just because you have a title, doesn't mean your actions should garner respect. All that is purpose. Could the scene have been of greater consequence? Yep. : An effective way to give this weight would to perhaps actually have the Chief : be thrown in the brig. Cortana would then help him escape, and you'd have : to play a level where you fight your way out and hijack a pelican. This : would have intensified the attachment with Cortana, since the MC would be : torn. After all, she is going Rampant, and breaking out would mean : fighting your comrades. Is his faith in her that strong? Just an idea. But : you see the point is that Del Rio would actually be a barrier to overcome, : rather than a laughing point, and it would have given the scene : consequence and been a nice black moment. I think that the idea here was a good though experiment, and we should now retire it to the same place as Communism and licking a flag pole in winter. Though I will give you that it would be more consequencial than what made it into the game... : The music on the main menu wasn't the Halo theme, and that's very off : putting. That's not something you can change. I know 343 had the rights to : that music since it played in the Composer finale. It went from iconic to : moronic, because what was there was not inspiring, or relevant at all. : That melody is as much a part of the game as the armor. What if one of the : next Star Wars movies doesn't open with the theme and title crawl? You : gotta put the monks over the title screen! Actually, the warthog with an engine out of the McLaren was much more off putting to me. I know they wanted to do a bang up job with the sounds and all, but there was nothing wrong with the old wartie we used to know, sound wise. I also agree that some of the vast musical changes were, IMO, a bit too much of a change from the past. The new stuff doesn't make me want to buy the soundtrack the way the old ones did. The only part of the new soundtrack that really got me going was the intense digitized guitar that last about 10 seconds. : When I first played Halo 4, I really was about ready to give up halfway : through the first level. Mistake number 1 is the use of quicktime events. : "This would be better with quicktime events!" said no player : ever. I cannot believe we are in 2012 and developers still think this is : effective or okay to do. Either let the player play the real game, or go : to a non interactive presentation. Going halfway gets you no benefits. : Quicktime events are stupidly simple, and you've got to remember that : someone playing your game for even the second time is going to grow bored : of simple button presses or using the left stick to climb. Someone who : beats the game will go back and try on legendary because they want more of : a challenge, however the quicktime events in Halo 4 do not scale in : difficulty. All and all 343, you should just eliminate them entirely for : Halo 5. I am dead serious about this, and cannot convey how much you need : to listen to me on this. I would say that this is an amateur mistake. I am not nearly as passionate about it, but I agree with the criticism that they are unnecessary, and overall don't add anything. : In a way, I think the fans did 343 a disservice. On one hand, 343 is going to : want to make a new game with new experiences, but on the other hand, : players want it to be Halo still. So you're damned if you do, and damned : if you don't. If you make it too different, people will scream that it : isn't Halo. If you make it too similar, people will scream how it's the : same old Halo and nothing new. I think this expectation negatively : affected the game, since 343 kept the general mechanics extremely similar : to the previous Halo games, yet added in tacky mini games to try to spruce : things up. It's the worst of both worlds really. And so I think the design : suffered a little bit in Halo 4. Most of the levels were flashbacks to : levels and situations in previous games, and while there was some new : stuff, I'm not sure it went far enough. I'll make a post about level : design at some point. See I'm on the opposite end. I think they did too much. If they wanted to do something radically different than the past, they shouldn't have used a well established franchise. That's why I think Bungie was so ready to move on. Why make a Halo game if you're going to change things up too much? Make a new shooter, and really do something new and awesome. Leave this awesome for us old geezers who remember when we had to use cords for our controllers to work, and lug big CRT's to play with friends. We had to walk to school, uphill both ways, in the snow... barefoot. : The expanded arsenal was also I think a wasted opportunity. Most of the new : guns are similar, or functionally equivalent to each other. What is the : point of the light rifle when the battle rifle exists? What is the point : of the suppressor when the AR exists? What is the point of the bolt shot, : when both the magnum and plasma pistol exist? What is the point of the : bolt rifle when the sniper rifle and beam rifle exist? What is the point : of the shotgun when the scattershot exists? The original Halo had no : weapon overlap at all, and as a result you had to choose carefully which : weapons to take, and each combination had benefits and drawbacks. The : Promethean weapons could have been much more unique, which would have : opened up greater opportunities for encounter designs. I completely agree. I found myself simply replacing weapons, instead of aganizing over decisions, like I remember doing back in the day. Agree. : I was likewise disappointed that the knights are essentially dealt with in : the same way as elites - drop their shields with the plasma pistol and : headshot them, use the needler, scattershot to the face, or use the : incineration canon. The optimal strategy for both enemies is basically the : same. When I found out you could use the PP/BR combo just like the elites, : I had to shake my head. These guys should have required a completely : different skill set or weapon group to take out. You wouldn't PP/BR the : brutes in Reach would you? Of course not, you would use the needle rifle. : And so while you have these new enemies, they don't really feel that new, : since you approach them in much the same way as you would if an elite were : placed in its place on the map instead. Yea, I think Frankie did us a disservice with all the hype that the Promethians were going to be a much different way of approaching AI. I found that they played very similar to the Elites. I'm not convinced it's a bad thing that they play similar, just that Frankie hyped it that way. Frankie, stick to the space mops! ;) Clearly you have no experience at this whole managing expectations for a new game thing. : Using mini games in lieu of compelling scenario design working within the : established mechanics is probably the most disappointing aspect of the : campaign. What 343 has going is pretty fun, so thinking of better levels : to play would have made the game much more enjoyable that boosting a ghost : through an earthquake or flying the death star trench run. There is very : little complexity to these - even on legendary the broadsword section is : absurdly simple (unlike the Sabre section in Reach, which at least was : slightly challenging and had the possibility of killing you). When you : create mini games with new mechanics, you're essentially throwing out the : wonderful mechanics you already have and starting from scratch. A better : strategy is to extend what you already have in creative ways, which I : didn't really see a lot of unfortunately. The aerial/space combat in this game was abismal compared to ODST and Reach. Fix it or remove it, but please don't put that blasphamie in front of us again. : Why is the return to battlefield countdown still in campaign? Again, this is : shitty and I'm really unhappy to see it because there is no good reason : for it to be there. I understand why it could be useful in multiplayer, : but in single player you have no excuse. Why did we not learn from Reach? : Please pay more attention and stop including things that make your game : worse. Um, I really didn't care about this. I'm confused why you do. : Player investment systems, just like quicktime events, are something that : never ever makes a game better. When I first played Spartan Ops, I had to : start with an AR / Pistol while my friends got to start with better : weapons. This is absolutely ridiculous, and I really have no desire to : have to unlock the ability to use better loadouts later. The proper thing : to do is to either allow preferred loadouts to be fully customized right : from the beginning, or have each episode contain 5 loadouts to pick from : tailored to the mission. I mean, if I can eventually add the DMR or Plasma : pistol, what difference does it make if I wait or get it now? The end : result is the same fucking thing, but if you give it to me right away I : can have all the fun I should have been having instead of playing with : shitty loadouts. When you have a system like this, you are making players : play an inferior version of your game repeatedly in order to get to the : 'real' version. That's horrible. Ditch this system. Please pay more : attention and stop including things that make your game worse. Yea, they are stupid. I'm sure a lot of research, time, and effort went into developing the time investment stuff, but it actually make me want to spend less time in multi-player. As someone with two jobs, and a kid, making me spend time to get to the fun parts makes me not want to spend any time at all. Seems to defeat the purpose of introducing Spartan Ops as stated by 343. : Spartan Ops itself is kind of a mixed bag. As far as story goes, it's so : disjointed I haven't been able to meaningfully follow anything just yet. I : was very disappointed to see episodes taking place in re-used geometry, : and the missions themselves are always the same thing: go here, hit this : switch, clear out the enemies, then evac. Some additional types of goals : would have been nice! But whatever, by the time they get stale, which is : after one playthrough, more are out. That's ok, but it could have been : better if these missions were themselves worthwhile and substantial, so : that the content isn't disposable. A huge flaw is the requirement to be : connected to live even if you are playing alone. I would have thought : after downloading episodes, that I could play them offline, but that would : make too much sense. I, too, want more out of these. If I am to keep coming back week after week, I need it to give me more for my time. I'm not ready to throw in the towel, but it needs to be like tuning into BSG, where every episode (at least in the first two seasons) answers the questions you had, and gave you more to wonder about. : Lack of theatre mode outside of War Games is very disappointing, and I look : forward to that patch (so long as it doesn't 'fix' any of the Speedrun : tricks :-p ) Yep. : I have mentioned the graphics , and it doesn't seem like people disagree : with me when I said that they were overly complex to the detriment of the : game. Artists outnumber other type of people in the credits by a HUGE : margin, and I think by and large that is one of the problems. Many of the : graphical and geometric decisions seemed driven by what looks impressive, : not by what will play well. I believe my previous post explains my : thoughts on this. I would remind 343 that graphics are meant to serve the : game mechanics first and foremost. They must not get in the way, and they : must be functional. Vanquish (a game that will probably be the game of the : decade in my mind) had similar complexity in the graphics and geometry, : however everything was still very distinct and functional. Stage and enemy : construction, as well as color choices all served to make the game : interesting to play. I would play this game and compare how Halo 4 differs : from it, and why those differences negatively impact Halo 4's playability. I disagree. I like the pretty that 343 put on. Perhaps it's because I'm much more casual, but I didn't notice a detriment to my gameplay because of the art. : I think despite all that, Halo 4 is pretty compelling to me. We'll see how it : holds up down the line, but so far I've been rather pleased. I think it'll be good. Some of my own thoughts as well: I think that the polish of H4: FOD and the cutscenes in H4 has convinced me that it's time for a Halo movie, or even full on series. Seperate from the games, and not watered down for kids like Clone Wars, someone like me would really enjoy something like that. I've always enjoyed Halo more for the story than anything else, and particularly now that I have a life outside of pizza, beer, and Halo, it would allow me a more 'digestable' way of getting my Halo story fix. Just sayin'.

Message Index

Let's Talk Halo 4	Cody Miller	11/16/12 1:12 a.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	Flynn J Taggart	11/16/12 2:06 a.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	JDQuackers	11/16/12 6:29 a.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	Architechnid	11/16/12 7:03 a.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	thebruce0	11/19/12 3:27 p.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	Kermit	11/16/12 8:13 a.m.
The graphics are too good. For shame, 343. *NM*	mr_mcmurder	11/16/12 8:25 a.m.
Don't conflate two distinct things	scarab	11/16/12 8:47 a.m.
Re: Don't conflate two distinct things	mr_mcmurder	11/16/12 6:04 p.m.
Re: Don't conflate two distinct things	kapowaz	11/16/12 8:19 p.m.
Re: Don't conflate two distinct things	uberfoop	11/16/12 8:38 p.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	kapowaz	11/16/12 8:28 a.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	scarab	11/16/12 8:44 a.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	kapowaz	11/16/12 8:54 a.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	Nash	11/16/12 9:45 a.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	Schooly D	11/16/12 10:22 a.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	kapowaz	11/16/12 11:36 a.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	Ibeechu	11/16/12 2:47 p.m.
Agreed.	Bones	11/16/12 4:16 p.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	Azo 'Galvat	11/16/12 10:44 a.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	SonGoharotto	11/16/12 11:44 a.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	kidtsunami	11/16/12 3:17 p.m.
Sorry	kidtsunami	11/16/12 5:18 p.m.
Great post. Two thumbs up.	Gravemind	11/16/12 3:34 p.m.
Re: Let's Talk Halo 4	Avateur	11/16/12 11:11 p.m.