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| Re: Haloversary saved films | |
| Posted By: Narcogen <narcogen@rampancy.net> | Date: 6/30/11 4:31 a.m. |
In Response To: Re: Haloversary saved films (Cody Miller) : If you want your game to be treated as art, then you have to think of it as : art. False. Art can be created unintentionally. Many works now considered art were created and influenced by commercial purposes and intent. We don't now remove Dickens from the category "literature" now because we know he was unnecessarily verbose because he was paid by the word. The entire concept of found art centers around the idea of the artist conferring upon a commonplace object the status of "art" even though it has another function. You're trying to generalize Art means making the best quality game with what you have. If that
Luckily I think not much in particular turns on how either of us treat games. One might argue that they have (or lack) inherent artistic value, which means either they do or do not have these qualities whether or not you or I (or even both of us) acknowledge it. Or, one might say that artistic values are arrived at not by individuals, but by societies-- in which case if a lot of people think a work (or a category of works) can be considered "art" then this will generally be held to be true no matter what a few pedants think of it. Your interpretation above is really only valid for a world in which whether something is art or not for a given individual depends entirely on that individual's isolated judgment, in which case, why bother telling anybody about it? : I work in a similar business, namely the movie business. There are films I
The plural of anecdote is not data. The fact that some works that aspire to be art, perhaps in spite of commercial concerns, does nothing whatsoever for the works that have such aspirations and fail to become popular, even if they succeed critically as works of art. You're conflating the the board word "art" with the generally understood concept of "high art" and reducing to the level of "commercial product" the generally understood concept of "commercial art". That's fine as long as you recognize that these definitions are only valid for you because they are not widely held, making it difficult to actually have a conversation since you insist on using your own definitions for your own terms. Under your system any artist who ever compromises for any commercial reason cannot possibly have produced a work of "art" regardless of how it turns out, and I think conceptually that's untenable. Obligatory Halo content: I would definitely buy HCEA (at least two copies) if it had saved films or equivalent functionality for campaign games. I also know better than to think it is feasible, (assuming what we've been told so far is accurate and reasonably complete) and I use that to temper my expectations for a work of commercial art. Bungie had saved films functionality in Marathon. Halo 1 lacked it. Presumably Bungie wanted to put it in Halo 1 (and Halo 2 for that matter) but failed to do so for one reason or another. Does this preclude them from being considered art? Does that mean that Halo 3 would be art, but Halo 1 and 2 are not? What about Halo 3 and Reach? Is the "equipment" feature a primitive and degenerate form of the "armor abilities" feature that shipped only because of a commercial need to ship on time? If so, is Reach "art" but Halo 3 is not? Nearly any game ever released could probably be improved by the addition of some feature or content that it lacks. Nearly every released game has had one or more features removed from it prior to release because of constraints of time and budget. It would then follow from your assumptions that no released game could ever be art-- no game that can actually be released has all of the content and features it could potentially have, and any removal of such content or features is a crass compromise with the commercial goal of actually putting a product up for sale. This is only a slight exaggeration of what you've proposed, but it results in a pretty silly situation.
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