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Re: Willfully obtuse?
Posted By: scarabDate: 11/16/07 5:49 p.m.

In Response To: Willfully obtuse? (yakaman)


: I can see most of your points, and can acknowledge how you've reached these
: conclusions. However, I do not like the "willfully obtuse"
: comment; it's not that I'm offended, because I'm not. It's more that I
: think you are underestimating Bungie's twisting. :)

I forgot who I was talking to. I thought that I was talking to someone who had read Joe's words and just didn't see what he was saying.

mea maxima culpa

: So I'm not lightly discrediting the statements made in CH; I'm not being
: willfully obtuse. I'm really confused by other, conflicting issues: 1.)
: I've been fooled before. I'm not kidding. Bungie has had me 'certain' at
: least 4-5 times and each subsequent chapter has spun me the other way.

: 2.) 2401PT says specifically in H2 that all Forerunner died during the
: firing.

I think that he was kept in the dark. I think that only Didact and a few other Forerunners knew of Earth. The instructions to await Reclaimers was meant for Reclaimers coming from the shield worlds.

: 3.) The 'Lost Tribes' theory is viable only to a point -
: archeological/biological records seem to show a pretty straight-forward
: development for humanity. Meaning, I'm not willing to accept an
: out-of-the-blue retconning of human history and science..."OK, humans
: really evolved 500,000 years ago and Atlantis thrived and then some left
: for the wild blue yonder but the rest of us devolved and then forgot and
: somehow the super-advanced tribe that left also forgot and re-found
: us."

I'm definitely not asking for that. (Well I have in the past but I'm not doing that now.)

What I propose is that the Precursors abducted some humans from Earth maybe 2, 10, 20, ? thousand years before the firing of the Array. They raised them on various installations in habitats populated with Earth flora and fauna. They did not tell the Forerunners where the Forerunners' home world was.

At some stage they achieved tier-1 tech and adopted the mantle.

The humans who remained on earth went about their business as usual until the Forerunners discovered Earth x thousand years later.

: I'd rather believe that humanity carries a genetic strain that arises
: naturally, periodically, within life forms of our galaxy. It would be
: common among the "Chosen Ones", and would have existed within
: the Precursors, within the Forerunner, and now within humanity. This would
: suggest a "plan" on a Galactic (Universal?) level to rival
: (oppose) the Flood. This would then suggest that the greater battle is
: really one of CHAOS vs ORDER. However, Gravemind would be order, and we
: would be Chaos.

I hadn't thought of that one, the universal seed, a bit like the E.E. Doc Smith's Arisians and their seeding of our universe.

It still makes us of the same race. Perhaps we are children of the Precursors.

But the advantage of the universal seed theory is that it is a single explanation.

The Lost Colony explains why the Forerunners passed the mantle to us. but it doesn't explain why the Precursors would teach the Forerunners as opposed to any other race of primatives. Although the books do suggest that we have a particular apptitude for tech. Maybe the Precursors tried a range of species and we were the best of the bunch.

OTOH, if there were many worlds seeded with Forerunners then Earth wouldn't be such a mystery. There would be nothing unique about it. It would just be one of many. "L: Oh, by the way, we found another seed world" "D: Whoopee do, we've got a war to concentrate on, grab them and bag them, get on with your work."

OTOOH, Maybe the universal seed is why the Forerunners are worried about genetic diversity.

Who knows, who can say...

: I'm not saying #3 can't be done - only that it has not yet been done. And if
: it's done, it better be damn well done. I'm not willing to commit one way
: or the other until it has been handled.

: Know what I mean?

I can understand a reluctance to be burned. :-) I just think that Joe's book has taken things beyond the tipping point and that it is now hard to unsay what he has said.


Message Index




Replies:

Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*yakaman 11/12/07 6:53 p.m.
     Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*elpolloguapo 11/12/07 7:41 p.m.
           Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*yakaman 11/13/07 10:19 a.m.
                 Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Dundradal 11/13/07 10:28 a.m.
                 Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*elpolloguapo 11/13/07 3:28 p.m.
                       Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*scarab 11/14/07 2:16 a.m.
                             You missed his point, I thinkyakaman 11/14/07 9:06 a.m.
                                   Re: You missed his point, I thinkAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/14/07 9:50 a.m.
                                         Re: You missed his point, I thinkyakaman 11/14/07 12:48 p.m.
                                         You're not going to like it *SP*scarab 11/14/07 2:23 p.m.
                                               Re: You're not going to like it *SP*scarab 11/14/07 2:46 p.m.
                                                     Re: You're not going to like it *SP*Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/14/07 3:20 p.m.
                                                           Re: You're not going to like it *SP*scarab 11/14/07 6:06 p.m.
                                                                 Re: You're not going to like it *SP*elpolloguapo 11/14/07 6:14 p.m.
                                                                       Re: You're not going to like it *SP*scarab 11/14/07 7:31 p.m.
                                                                             This is my point, exactly.yakaman 11/15/07 4:00 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/15/07 5:11 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/15/07 6:12 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/16/07 7:46 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Louis Wu 11/16/07 9:55 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/16/07 2:19 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Willfully obtuse?yakaman 11/16/07 5:08 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Wait a second....yakaman 11/16/07 5:18 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Wait a second....elpolloguapo 11/16/07 5:50 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Wait a second....scarab 11/16/07 5:52 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Willfully obtuse?elpolloguapo 11/16/07 5:48 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Willfully obtuse?scarab 11/16/07 5:49 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Louis Wu 11/16/07 9:15 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 6:13 a.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Louis Wu 11/17/07 6:20 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 1:23 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Louis Wu 11/17/07 4:06 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 12:06 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 1:25 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 1:30 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 12:08 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 2:00 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 2:10 p.m.
                                                                                                                                               Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 3:37 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Cthulhu117 11/17/07 6:17 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                           Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/18/07 5:55 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 6:30 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Cortana LetterNarcogen 11/16/07 9:18 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Cortana Letterscarab 11/17/07 3:10 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Cortana Letter *SP*Narcogen 11/18/07 6:15 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Cortana Letter *SP*elpolloguapo 11/18/07 6:56 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Cortana Letter *SP*scarab 11/19/07 7:37 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly.elpolloguapo 11/15/07 6:06 p.m.
                                                     Re: You're not going to like it *SP*elpolloguapo 11/14/07 3:40 p.m.
                                                           Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*scarab 11/14/07 7:05 p.m.
                                                                 Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/14/07 8:28 p.m.
                                                                       Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*scarab 11/15/07 8:34 a.m.
                                                                             Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/15/07 3:11 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*scarab 11/15/07 4:35 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/15/07 6:25 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*scarab 11/16/07 8:30 a.m.
                                                           Re: You're not going to like it *SP*Roflsalad 11/18/07 11:20 p.m.
     Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Orpheus 11/12/07 7:48 p.m.
           Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*elpolloguapo 11/12/07 7:51 p.m.
                 Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Orpheus 11/12/07 8:09 p.m.
                       Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*elpolloguapo 11/12/07 8:16 p.m.
           Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/12/07 9:25 p.m.
                 Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Dundradal 11/12/07 9:32 p.m.
                 Exactly.Cthulhu117 11/14/07 6:44 p.m.
                       Re: Exactly.elpolloguapo 11/14/07 6:53 p.m.
                             Re: Exactly.Dundradal 11/15/07 9:18 a.m.
                                   Re: Exactly.Cthulhu117 11/15/07 4:53 p.m.



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