Consider the circumstances.


	/-/S'pht-Translator-Active/-/

Consider the circumstances.

Posted By: RyokoTK Date: 9/29/05 12:38 p.m.
In Response To: Can't we all just get along? *NM* (Bob-B-Q)

The point of E0 is to render the Marathon 2 engine obsolete, which would be great, except for the fact that it would render all of us M2 mappers obsolete. There's nothing more that I would like than to have Sigma, and Eternal, and other projects become a thing of the past because of an incompatible engine upgrade.
That was sarcasm.
At any rate, it wouldn't be so bad if me_43 wasn't so dickish about his (evident) opinion about Goran, which reflects on the rest of the upper echelon of mappers because Goran is not the only one pushing the limits of the Marathon experience. But the petulant whimpering of people that don't really understand what it's like to be on the cutting edge, and just assume that it's been established already and we're living in a shadow.
Consider though the fact that the Marathon community's experienced a small influx lately of new people that want to map, but they... well... they stink, basically. But the only resources for hints on new tutorials come either from places like Hastur's Workshop, which is nice but incomplete, or from a more intuitive approach of looking at better maps and learning, which I don't think most people can do very well. You end up with a bunch of low-quality maps that are welcomed by the community because there isn't a whole lot of anything else, so we can't turn them away.
This is why we basically need a new, comprehensive tutorial system. And when you get people like me_43 who get all whiny because we don't give enough props to E0, well, we get annoyed because he (quite clearly) doesn't actually know a damn thing about advanced mapping, and so I totally agree with goran and think he (as well as the rest of us) deserve more respect.
Face it, though: Marathon has evolved, both in single play and net play. FM was a great mapper back in 1997, but now his formulas and designs don't work as well (especially for net play...), and so the old guides and tutorials don't work anymore, but the mainstays of things like Quake 3 and UT2K4 make for really piss-poor netmaps... there needs to be a new source.
Sorry, I got a bit carried away. Anyway, I fully support goran's project and intend to help him with the whole thing, if he'll let me.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Mapping community goran 9/27/05 11:52 a.m.

Re: Mapping community Blake37 9/27/05 12:11 p.m.

Re: Mapping community Nick Hoad 9/27/05 1:30 p.m.

Re: Mapping community Me_43 9/27/05 8:23 p.m.

Re: Mapping community goran 9/28/05 12:38 a.m.

Re: Mapping community RyokoTK 9/28/05 3:25 a.m.

Re: Mapping community goran 9/28/05 5:23 a.m.

Re: Mapping community Forrest of B.org 9/28/05 8:18 a.m.

Re: Mapping community Nick Hoad 9/28/05 12:52 p.m.

Re: Mapping community RyokoTK 9/28/05 5:23 p.m.

Re: Mapping community ellio7t 9/30/05 9:15 a.m.

****To mapping community**** me_43 9/28/05 11:45 p.m.

Just be quiet, me_43. Seriously. *NM* RyokoTK 9/29/05 3:39 a.m.

Re: Just be quiet, me_43. Seriously. Simon/team Sigma 9/29/05 3:50 a.m.

Re: ****To mapping community**** goran 9/29/05 4:02 a.m.

Can't we all just get along? *NM* Bob-B-Q 9/29/05 4:47 a.m.

Re: Can't we all just get along? Simon/team Sigma 9/29/05 5:11 a.m.

Consider the circumstances. RyokoTK 9/29/05 12:38 p.m.

Re: Consider the circumstances. me_43 10/4/05 3:19 a.m.

I'm with Bob-B-Q on this Reiginko 9/29/05 5:33 a.m.

Re: I'm with Bob-B-Q on this me_43 9/29/05 6:38 a.m.

To all of you... Forrest of B.org 9/29/05 7:47 a.m.

Re: To all of you... kyjel 9/29/05 9:11 a.m.

Re: To all of you... Jacke 9/29/05 9:51 a.m.

Re: To all of you... Forrest of B.org 9/29/05 8:06 p.m.

Re: To all of you... goran 9/29/05 10:00 p.m.

Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot Tyler 9/30/05 1:35 p.m.

Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot Forrest of B.org 9/30/05 1:52 p.m.

Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot Forrest of B.org 9/30/05 1:53 p.m.

Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot Tyler 9/30/05 2:57 p.m.

Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot Forrest of B.org 9/30/05 10:11 p.m.

Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot Speaker-To-Animals 10/1/05 7:31 a.m.

Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot Blake37 10/1/05 9:35 a.m.

Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot Forrest of B.org 10/3/05 2:13 p.m.

stop goran 9/29/05 10:44 a.m.

I wouldn't see it as "preaching" MrHen 9/29/05 11:41 a.m.

Re: stop Forrest of B.org 9/29/05 2:40 p.m.

Re: stop Forrest of B.org 9/29/05 8:01 p.m.

Re: stop Bob-B-Q 9/29/05 3:24 p.m.

Re: stop RyokoTK 9/29/05 3:29 p.m.

Re: stop Forrest of B.org 9/29/05 7:49 p.m.

Re: stop goran 9/29/05 9:54 p.m.

Re: stop Forrest of B.org 9/29/05 10:24 p.m.

Re: stop goran 9/30/05 3:10 a.m.

Re: stop RyokoTK 9/30/05 4:07 a.m.

Re: stop goran 9/30/05 3:18 a.m.

FROG BLAST THE VENT CORE!!!!!!! *NM* ukimalefu 9/30/05 4:58 a.m.

Re: stop Forrest of B.org 9/30/05 6:25 a.m.

Steve's house goran 9/30/05 9:10 a.m.

Collaborative Conversation Forrest of B.org 9/30/05 12:37 p.m.

Re: Collaborative Conversation Forrest of B.org 9/30/05 1:32 p.m.

Unsolicted advice (this time without anecdots) goran 9/30/05 4:39 p.m.

Re: Collaborative Conversation goran 9/30/05 5:10 p.m.

Re: Collaborative Conversation D-M.A. 9/30/05 9:12 p.m.

Re: Collaborative Conversation Forrest of B.org 9/30/05 10:24 p.m.

Re: Collaborative Conversation goran 10/1/05 1:56 a.m.

Re: Collaborative Conversation goran 10/1/05 12:52 a.m.

Re: Collaborative Conversation D-M.A. 10/1/05 1:39 a.m.

Re: Collaborative Conversation D-M.A. 10/1/05 1:50 a.m.

Re: Collaborative Conversation goran 10/1/05 2:46 a.m.

Re: Collaborative Conversation goran 10/1/05 2:29 a.m.

Another note to self... Forrest of B.org 10/3/05 12:10 p.m.

Subjective vs Objective, Relative vs Absolute Forrest of B.org 10/3/05 1:12 p.m.

Applause! *NM* Blake37 10/3/05 1:42 p.m.

addition: beliefs and maps goran 10/3/05 3:22 p.m.

Re: addition: beliefs and maps D-M.A. 10/3/05 7:04 p.m.

Re: addition: beliefs and maps Forrest of B.org 10/3/05 7:07 p.m.

Re: addition: beliefs and maps goran 10/4/05 12:32 a.m.

MSF Story Hour Jacke 9/30/05 1:38 p.m.

Re: To all of you... me_43 10/1/05 2:37 a.m.

Re: To all of you... RyokoTK 10/1/05 4:00 a.m.

Re: To all of you... me_43 10/1/05 7:27 a.m.

Re: To all of you... Simon/team Sigma 10/1/05 12:17 p.m.

Re: To all of you... Steve Levinson 10/1/05 7:07 p.m.

Re: To all of you... C Lund 10/1/05 11:16 p.m.

Re: An objective opinion? Maybe. Blayne 9/29/05 7:40 a.m.

Re: ****To mapping community**** Adam Ashwell 9/29/05 12:08 p.m.

To me_43, G�ran and anyone else who'll listen Steve Levinson 9/30/05 9:08 p.m.

Re: To me_43, G�ran and anyone else who'll listen D-M.A. 9/30/05 9:22 p.m.

Re: To me_43, G�ran and anyone else who'll listen Forrest of B.org 9/30/05 10:35 p.m.

Re: To me_43, G�ran and anyone else who'll listen goran 10/1/05 12:28 a.m.

Re: To me_43, G�ran and anyone else who'll listen me_43 10/1/05 2:45 a.m.

Re: Mapping community D-M.A. 9/29/05 10:42 a.m.

Re: Mapping community me_43 10/5/05 10:01 p.m.

Can't see shit. *omg downloads* Me_43 10/5/05 11:27 p.m.

Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died Reiginko 10/6/05 2:08 a.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died Forrest of B.org 10/6/05 6:51 a.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died goran 10/6/05 9:51 a.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died Forrest of B.org 10/6/05 2:16 p.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died me_43 10/7/05 2:06 a.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died goran 10/7/05 2:54 a.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died Nick Hoad 10/7/05 10:44 a.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died goran 10/7/05 11:14 a.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died Nick Hoad 10/7/05 1:54 p.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died me_43 10/8/05 12:54 a.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died me_43 10/8/05 12:55 a.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died goran 10/8/05 1:34 a.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died RyokoTK 10/7/05 3:12 a.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died me_43 10/8/05 12:55 a.m.

Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died RyokoTK 10/8/05 3:16 a.m.

Do you really think you can make better maps? RyokoTK 10/6/05 3:34 a.m.

Re: Do you really think you can make better maps? Simon/team Sigma 10/6/05 3:55 a.m.

Re: Mapping community goran 10/6/05 4:14 a.m.

[end thread] me_43 10/6/05 5:06 a.m.

Re: [end thread] D-M.A. 10/6/05 7:55 a.m.

Re: [end thread] Dave 10/7/05 9:08 p.m.

Re: [end thread] goran 10/8/05 1:32 a.m.

Re: [end thread] goran 10/8/05 2:06 a.m.

Re: [end thread] RyokoTK 10/8/05 3:16 a.m.

Re: Mapping community goran 10/6/05 4:53 a.m.

Re: Mapping community goran 10/6/05 11:55 a.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: The point of E0 is to render the Marathon 2 engine obsolete, which would be : great, except for the fact that it would render all of us M2 mappers : obsolete. There's nothing more that I would like than to have Sigma, and : Eternal, and other projects become a thing of the past because of an : incompatible engine upgrade. : That was sarcasm. : At any rate, it wouldn't be so bad if me_43 wasn't so dickish about his : (evident) opinion about Goran, which reflects on the rest of the upper : echelon of mappers because Goran is not the only one pushing the limits of : the Marathon experience. But the petulant whimpering of people that don't : really understand what it's like to be on the cutting edge, and just : assume that it's been established already and we're living in a shadow. : Consider though the fact that the Marathon community's experienced a small : influx lately of new people that want to map, but they... well... they : stink, basically. But the only resources for hints on new tutorials come : either from places like Hastur's Workshop, which is nice but incomplete, : or from a more intuitive approach of looking at better maps and learning, : which I don't think most people can do very well. You end up with a bunch : of low-quality maps that are welcomed by the community because there isn't : a whole lot of anything else, so we can't turn them away. : This is why we basically need a new, comprehensive tutorial system. And when : you get people like me_43 who get all whiny because we don't give enough : props to E0, well, we get annoyed because he (quite clearly) doesn't : actually know a damn thing about advanced mapping, and so I totally agree : with goran and think he (as well as the rest of us) deserve more respect. : Face it, though: Marathon has evolved, both in single play and net play. FM : was a great mapper back in 1997, but now his formulas and designs don't : work as well (especially for net play...), and so the old guides and : tutorials don't work anymore, but the mainstays of things like Quake 3 and : UT2K4 make for really piss-poor netmaps... there needs to be a new source. : Sorry, I got a bit carried away. Anyway, I fully support goran's project and : intend to help him with the whole thing, if he'll let me.

If you'd like to include a link to another page with your message,
please provide both the URL address and the title of the page:
Optional Link URL:
Optional Link Title:

If necessary, enter your password below:
Password:

Problems? Suggestions? Comments? Email maintainer@bungie.org
Marathon's Story Forum is maintained with WebBBS 5.12.

Mapping community	goran	9/27/05 11:52 a.m.
Re: Mapping community	Blake37	9/27/05 12:11 p.m.
Re: Mapping community	Nick Hoad	9/27/05 1:30 p.m.
Re: Mapping community	Me_43	9/27/05 8:23 p.m.
Re: Mapping community	goran	9/28/05 12:38 a.m.
Re: Mapping community	RyokoTK	9/28/05 3:25 a.m.
Re: Mapping community	goran	9/28/05 5:23 a.m.
Re: Mapping community	Forrest of B.org	9/28/05 8:18 a.m.
Re: Mapping community	Nick Hoad	9/28/05 12:52 p.m.
Re: Mapping community	RyokoTK	9/28/05 5:23 p.m.
Re: Mapping community	ellio7t	9/30/05 9:15 a.m.
**To mapping community**	me_43	9/28/05 11:45 p.m.
Just be quiet, me_43. Seriously. NM	RyokoTK	9/29/05 3:39 a.m.
Re: Just be quiet, me_43. Seriously.	Simon/team Sigma	9/29/05 3:50 a.m.
Re: **To mapping community**	goran	9/29/05 4:02 a.m.
Can't we all just get along? NM	Bob-B-Q	9/29/05 4:47 a.m.
Re: Can't we all just get along?	Simon/team Sigma	9/29/05 5:11 a.m.
Consider the circumstances.	RyokoTK	9/29/05 12:38 p.m.
Re: Consider the circumstances.	me_43	10/4/05 3:19 a.m.
I'm with Bob-B-Q on this	Reiginko	9/29/05 5:33 a.m.
Re: I'm with Bob-B-Q on this	me_43	9/29/05 6:38 a.m.
To all of you...	Forrest of B.org	9/29/05 7:47 a.m.
Re: To all of you...	kyjel	9/29/05 9:11 a.m.
Re: To all of you...	Jacke	9/29/05 9:51 a.m.
Re: To all of you...	Forrest of B.org	9/29/05 8:06 p.m.
Re: To all of you...	goran	9/29/05 10:00 p.m.
Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot	Tyler	9/30/05 1:35 p.m.
Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot	Forrest of B.org	9/30/05 1:52 p.m.
Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot	Forrest of B.org	9/30/05 1:53 p.m.
Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot	Tyler	9/30/05 2:57 p.m.
Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot	Forrest of B.org	9/30/05 10:11 p.m.
Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot	Speaker-To-Animals	10/1/05 7:31 a.m.
Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot	Blake37	10/1/05 9:35 a.m.
Re: Sleep is irrelevent to the Fobot	Forrest of B.org	10/3/05 2:13 p.m.
stop	goran	9/29/05 10:44 a.m.
I wouldn't see it as "preaching"	MrHen	9/29/05 11:41 a.m.
Re: stop	Forrest of B.org	9/29/05 2:40 p.m.
Re: stop	Forrest of B.org	9/29/05 8:01 p.m.
Re: stop	Bob-B-Q	9/29/05 3:24 p.m.
Re: stop	RyokoTK	9/29/05 3:29 p.m.
Re: stop	Forrest of B.org	9/29/05 7:49 p.m.
Re: stop	goran	9/29/05 9:54 p.m.
Re: stop	Forrest of B.org	9/29/05 10:24 p.m.
Re: stop	goran	9/30/05 3:10 a.m.
Re: stop	RyokoTK	9/30/05 4:07 a.m.
Re: stop	goran	9/30/05 3:18 a.m.
FROG BLAST THE VENT CORE!!!!!!! NM	ukimalefu	9/30/05 4:58 a.m.
Re: stop	Forrest of B.org	9/30/05 6:25 a.m.
Steve's house	goran	9/30/05 9:10 a.m.
Collaborative Conversation	Forrest of B.org	9/30/05 12:37 p.m.
Re: Collaborative Conversation	Forrest of B.org	9/30/05 1:32 p.m.
Unsolicted advice (this time without anecdots)	goran	9/30/05 4:39 p.m.
Re: Collaborative Conversation	goran	9/30/05 5:10 p.m.
Re: Collaborative Conversation	D-M.A.	9/30/05 9:12 p.m.
Re: Collaborative Conversation	Forrest of B.org	9/30/05 10:24 p.m.
Re: Collaborative Conversation	goran	10/1/05 1:56 a.m.
Re: Collaborative Conversation	goran	10/1/05 12:52 a.m.
Re: Collaborative Conversation	D-M.A.	10/1/05 1:39 a.m.
Re: Collaborative Conversation	D-M.A.	10/1/05 1:50 a.m.
Re: Collaborative Conversation	goran	10/1/05 2:46 a.m.
Re: Collaborative Conversation	goran	10/1/05 2:29 a.m.
Another note to self...	Forrest of B.org	10/3/05 12:10 p.m.
Subjective vs Objective, Relative vs Absolute	Forrest of B.org	10/3/05 1:12 p.m.
Applause! NM	Blake37	10/3/05 1:42 p.m.
addition: beliefs and maps	goran	10/3/05 3:22 p.m.
Re: addition: beliefs and maps	D-M.A.	10/3/05 7:04 p.m.
Re: addition: beliefs and maps	Forrest of B.org	10/3/05 7:07 p.m.
Re: addition: beliefs and maps	goran	10/4/05 12:32 a.m.
MSF Story Hour	Jacke	9/30/05 1:38 p.m.
Re: To all of you...	me_43	10/1/05 2:37 a.m.
Re: To all of you...	RyokoTK	10/1/05 4:00 a.m.
Re: To all of you...	me_43	10/1/05 7:27 a.m.
Re: To all of you...	Simon/team Sigma	10/1/05 12:17 p.m.
Re: To all of you...	Steve Levinson	10/1/05 7:07 p.m.
Re: To all of you...	C Lund	10/1/05 11:16 p.m.
Re: An objective opinion? Maybe.	Blayne	9/29/05 7:40 a.m.
Re: **To mapping community**	Adam Ashwell	9/29/05 12:08 p.m.
To me_43, G�ran and anyone else who'll listen	Steve Levinson	9/30/05 9:08 p.m.
Re: To me_43, G�ran and anyone else who'll listen	D-M.A.	9/30/05 9:22 p.m.
Re: To me_43, G�ran and anyone else who'll listen	Forrest of B.org	9/30/05 10:35 p.m.
Re: To me_43, G�ran and anyone else who'll listen	goran	10/1/05 12:28 a.m.
Re: To me_43, G�ran and anyone else who'll listen	me_43	10/1/05 2:45 a.m.
Re: Mapping community	D-M.A.	9/29/05 10:42 a.m.
Re: Mapping community	me_43	10/5/05 10:01 p.m.
Can't see shit. omg downloads	Me_43	10/5/05 11:27 p.m.
Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	Reiginko	10/6/05 2:08 a.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	Forrest of B.org	10/6/05 6:51 a.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	goran	10/6/05 9:51 a.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	Forrest of B.org	10/6/05 2:16 p.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	me_43	10/7/05 2:06 a.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	goran	10/7/05 2:54 a.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	Nick Hoad	10/7/05 10:44 a.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	goran	10/7/05 11:14 a.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	Nick Hoad	10/7/05 1:54 p.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	me_43	10/8/05 12:54 a.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	me_43	10/8/05 12:55 a.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	goran	10/8/05 1:34 a.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	RyokoTK	10/7/05 3:12 a.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	me_43	10/8/05 12:55 a.m.
Re: Oh, man, and I thought this thread had died	RyokoTK	10/8/05 3:16 a.m.
Do you really think you can make better maps?	RyokoTK	10/6/05 3:34 a.m.
Re: Do you really think you can make better maps?	Simon/team Sigma	10/6/05 3:55 a.m.
Re: Mapping community	goran	10/6/05 4:14 a.m.
[end thread]	me_43	10/6/05 5:06 a.m.
Re: [end thread]	D-M.A.	10/6/05 7:55 a.m.
Re: [end thread]	Dave	10/7/05 9:08 p.m.
Re: [end thread]	goran	10/8/05 1:32 a.m.
Re: [end thread]	goran	10/8/05 2:06 a.m.
Re: [end thread]	RyokoTK	10/8/05 3:16 a.m.
Re: Mapping community	goran	10/6/05 4:53 a.m.
Re: Mapping community	goran	10/6/05 11:55 a.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : The point of E0 is to render the Marathon 2 engine obsolete, which would be : great, except for the fact that it would render all of us M2 mappers : obsolete. There's nothing more that I would like than to have Sigma, and : Eternal, and other projects become a thing of the past because of an : incompatible engine upgrade. : That was sarcasm. : At any rate, it wouldn't be so bad if me_43 wasn't so dickish about his : (evident) opinion about Goran, which reflects on the rest of the upper : echelon of mappers because Goran is not the only one pushing the limits of : the Marathon experience. But the petulant whimpering of people that don't : really understand what it's like to be on the cutting edge, and just : assume that it's been established already and we're living in a shadow. : Consider though the fact that the Marathon community's experienced a small : influx lately of new people that want to map, but they... well... they : stink, basically. But the only resources for hints on new tutorials come : either from places like Hastur's Workshop, which is nice but incomplete, : or from a more intuitive approach of looking at better maps and learning, : which I don't think most people can do very well. You end up with a bunch : of low-quality maps that are welcomed by the community because there isn't : a whole lot of anything else, so we can't turn them away. : This is why we basically need a new, comprehensive tutorial system. And when : you get people like me_43 who get all whiny because we don't give enough : props to E0, well, we get annoyed because he (quite clearly) doesn't : actually know a damn thing about advanced mapping, and so I totally agree : with goran and think he (as well as the rest of us) deserve more respect. : Face it, though: Marathon has evolved, both in single play and net play. FM : was a great mapper back in 1997, but now his formulas and designs don't : work as well (especially for net play...), and so the old guides and : tutorials don't work anymore, but the mainstays of things like Quake 3 and : UT2K4 make for really piss-poor netmaps... there needs to be a new source. : Sorry, I got a bit carried away. Anyway, I fully support goran's project and : intend to help him with the whole thing, if he'll let me.
	If you'd like to include a link to another page with your message, please provide both the URL address and the title of the page:
	Optional Link URL:
	Optional Link Title:
	If necessary, enter your password below:
	Password: