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	Re: Oh, and some other things
	Posted By: Forrest of B.org	Date: 7/13/04 5:53 p.m.
	In Response To: Oh, and some other things (Scumbag) You quote in a strange way that breaks the autoquoting on the forum. Please use the standard colon-before-a-quoted-line method, it makes life easier for those trying to respond to you. I've fixed it myself for this reply... : I simply asked for clarification, which thankfully Forrest of B.org provided. You're welcome. : Sorry if pointing out the backwards technology - below my personal threshold - of a game : offends you. The technology is only 'backwards' to someone new to the field who does not appreciate where the modern games he loves come from and the rich history behind them. That's like calling black powder weapons 'backwards' - sure assault rifles kill people a lot more efficiently and use much newer tech, but there's still something intriguing and different, in some ways better (in a non-quantitative way), about the older weapons. Or swords vs guns, for that matter, to more dramatically illustrate the difference. : Marathon's importance is only the connections to Halo. Only to a newcomer to the field who doesn't appreciate what came before his favorite games and the rich history of videogaming. You might as well call SuperMario's only importance it's connection to Super Smash Brothers Melee or some such. Marathon introduced a whole slew of the new things it introduced to gaming that much later hit the mainstream (varied and balanced weapons, dual weilding, non-deathmatch multiplayer game types, cooperative play, and of course this whole concept of a detailed and involving story). There's an entire retrogamer movement out there, the same way there are people who collect swords or classic cars. They may be old but they are still good if you appreciate them on a more than one-dimensional level (how many people a weapon can kill, how fast a car can go, how many polygons an engine can push). : Judging in the only way that matters - sales - Halo is far better than Marathon. Sales only matter to the owners of the company, and secondarily to people who want that company to stay around for some reason or another; they are hardly a judge of product quality unless you can assure that every other variable is identical. Marathon was Bungie's biggest-selling title of it's day. Halo is Bungie's biggest-selling title today. Nevermind that Bungie was a no-name company who did EVERYTHING THEMSELVES and sold only to the Mac when they released Marathon, while Halo had the might of Microsoft pushing it across three platforms and playing advertizements on primetime television; not to mention the fact that back then in Marathon's day a videogame ad on primetime TV was unheard-of, because the game industry itself was tiny in comparison today. : I don't need to point out much more Halo has sold than Marathon. Had it not connections to Halo : it would be in the failed-cuz-of-Doom category with Rise of the Triad. Write a letter to anybody at Bungie. Ask them if they think Marathon is a failure by your exclusive measure, sales. They made it, it was their challenge to try to make a game and sell enough to keep making a living off of selling games. Did it fail for them? They've only made more and bigger-selling games ever since, so I think the answer is pretty obvious. Bigger later victories to not turn your earlier victories into failures. I'm not even going to address the comparison to Doom. Aside from the fact that Marathon's target audience for it's time (Mac users) almost invariably remember it more fondly than Doom, I would wager that it probably did better on the sales front on their common ground (again, the Mac - they didn't even release it for PC except a paltry 1/3 of the series years later, so it's no point trying to compare). And the of course there's the biggest point of this whole message, that sales alone, or graphics alone, or any one variable alone does not make a game on the whole better or worse than any other. You've got to compare them ON THE WHOLE to make such an all-encompassing judgement fairly. : I can't change the controls in the way I need. "rebind to WASD" is unacceptable. What do you want to change, then? We might be able to help, if you're still willing to give the game a shot. And also, if lores pixellies are your biggest concern, I should note that you can fix that in part by downloading the hires texture packs, although they are still incomplete and (IMO, no offense to the people making them) kinda suck in places. And [shameless plug] if you'd like to see what Aleph One can really be with it's improvements to the Marathon engine, you should check out my upcoming project Eternal. While it still features some of the lowres original graphics, I intend to replace most of them except for the monsters and some scenery with higher res graphics by the time the final version is out. [/shameless plug]

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Replies:

	Marathon standard I'm confused about	Scumbag	7/10/04 11:00 a.m.
	Re: Marathon standard I'm confused about	Bob-B-Q	7/10/04 1:19 p.m.
	Re: Marathon standard I'm confused about	Forrest of B.org	7/10/04 1:23 p.m.
	Re: Marathon standard I'm confused about	Joshua Bell	7/10/04 1:26 p.m.
	Re: Marathon standard I'm confused about	ukimalefu	7/10/04 9:25 p.m.
	Actually...	Scumbag	7/11/04 9:28 p.m.
	Re: Actually...	Johannes Gunnar	7/12/04 6:15 a.m.
	Re: Actually...	Steve Levinson	7/12/04 9:07 a.m.
	Re: Actually...	Yossarian	7/12/04 9:12 a.m.
	Re: Actually...	Steve Levinson	7/12/04 10:12 a.m.
	Re: Actually...	•M	7/12/04 12:28 p.m.
	Re: Actually...	Forrest of B.org	7/12/04 10:07 p.m.
	Re: Marathon standard I'm confused about	Andrew Nagy	7/13/04 11:04 a.m.
	Re: Marathon standard I'm confused about	Johannes Gunnar	7/13/04 2:19 p.m.
	Response to everyone above	Scumbag	7/13/04 4:21 p.m.
	Oh, and some other things	Scumbag	7/13/04 4:24 p.m.
	You done it now... *NM*	deathmonger	7/13/04 5:14 p.m.
	Re: You done it now...	Andrew Nagy	7/13/04 5:37 p.m.
	NO POINT, I said. *NM*	Andrew Nagy	7/14/04 7:24 a.m.
	I agree, but who are you to ORDER us not to reply? *NM*	Steve Levinson	7/14/04 8:10 a.m.
	I'm Rick James, biotch. *NM*	Andrew Nagy	7/14/04 9:02 a.m.
	Re: I'm Rick James, biotch.	Mark Levin	7/14/04 9:39 a.m.
	Well, no. *NM*	Andrew Nagy	7/14/04 10:26 a.m.
	Re: I'm Rick James, biotch.	Andrew Nagy	8/5/04 8:24 p.m.
	Re: Oh, and some other things	Forrest of B.org	7/13/04 5:53 p.m.
	Too busy to quote everyone in different posts	Scumbag	7/13/04 9:53 p.m.
	Re: Too busy to quote everyone in different posts	HolyMcGibblets	7/13/04 10:20 p.m.
	Re: Too busy to quote everyone in different posts	Forrest of B.org	7/14/04 7:49 a.m.
	Re: Too busy to quote everyone in different posts	HolyMcGibblets	7/14/04 1:40 p.m.
	Re: Too busy to quote everyone in different posts	Count Zero	7/13/04 10:54 p.m.
	Let's give this guy a break, but watch your words	Steve Levinson	7/14/04 8:27 a.m.
	More pointless flames against Scumbag; ignore *NM*	Andrew Nagy	7/14/04 8:56 a.m.
	Another question	Andrew Nagy	7/14/04 9:12 a.m.
	Marathon: Resurrection! *NM*	Andrew Nagy	7/15/04 2:09 a.m.
	Just to clarify the numbers game	Steve Levinson	7/13/04 5:57 p.m.
	Re: Oh, and some other things	Syngekhoomei	7/13/04 9:02 p.m.
	Re: Oh, and some other things	ukimalefu	7/14/04 1:04 a.m.
	Re: Oh, and some other things	Johannes Gunnar	7/14/04 4:54 a.m.
	Re: Oh, and some other things	Lt Devon	7/15/04 4:57 p.m.
	Re: Oh, and some other things	Simon of team Sigma	7/15/04 6:05 p.m.

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