Re: help me out...to read this


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Re: help me out...to read this

Posted By: Yossarian Date: 4/6/04 11:40 a.m.
In Response To: Re: help me out...to read this (Steve Levinson)

: sent high voltage discharges through it to simulate lightening and
: created organic molecules -
Got to love that DC.
: the most basic building blocks of carbon-based
: life. Every chemical reaction that creates new molecules from others has
: an energy of activation and a probability of occurring, just based on the
: random nature of energy distributions from heat. Given the right
: ingredients in the soup, lipid bi-layers, the basis of the cell membrane,
: will form spontaneously and they will even form bubble-like structures
: that resemble cells and reproduce by budding. Is this life? No, but it's a
: step in the evolution of the most fundamental forms of life.
Of course, distinction of where non-life ends and where life begins is arbitrarily decided by human scientists, although among valid descriptions. Or you could take the road of panpsychism and say that everything is alive in a sense, and I can buy into this. Level after level in Biology you see the same patterns. Molecules, chains, cells, tissue, organs, organ systems, organisms, families, cultures, cities, societies, ecosystems, worlds...they are all levels of systems dependent on eachother, like a huge friggin' machine. Is the solar system "alive"? Not by the scientific sense, but it does operate as a self-contained "thing" that came to be and will one day cease to be, it uses and in some ways generates energy.
What really
: gave life its start, however, was the formation of nucleic acids. This
: molecules, which have the ability to store energy among other things, have
: a natural ability to self-assemble chains of like molecules. They also
: have the ability to assemble protein sequences, some of which by pure
: random chance will have enzymatic properties that lower the energy of
: activation for other chemical reactions, speeding up the development of
: new molecules.
Where ribosomes and RNA come in. A lot of people have a difficult time grasping this aspect of what really isn't evolution, but an origin other than a bearded guy saying "let it be". It's explained rather well in most high-school Biology books these days. Long story short is you got a group of molecules that just took on life-like characteristics. "Magically"? "Just like that"? No. It's based on circumstance, the rightr place at the right time. Makes you wonder how many right places and times there were intersected eachother in the universe. Life started very, very simply. Life: miracle or circumstantial inevitability?
Given enough time and the right environment, anything will
: happen. There's a great book called the River that Runs Uphill that
: chronicals two journeys - a raft trip by a group of famous scientists
: through the Grand Canyon, and the journey of life.
Making me homesick here.
: In theory, life
: shouldn't form at all because it involves increasing entropy - it would be
: like a river flowing uphill. What makes life unique is that as improbable
: as the formation of complex organic molecules may be, each new complexity
: makes the next one more feasible. At our stage in evolution, the
: complexity of biologic systems is so significant that the propagation of
: life is inevitable - the river flows uphill.
Of course, this is the same entropy to which we will all succumb, as it requires a lot of energy to move uphill, and there is an inevitable end to the wear and tear it causes to your body and mind. Elasticin enzymes snap, and wrinkles appear. Cells take longer to generate or regenerate. You leave the turn signal on when you drive. The question to me is, what is the benefit of having a phenomenon such as life that seems counter-directional to the flow of things? Could it be that life is a mere anomaly, or are there deeper implications? Or is it possible I'm starting to sound overdramatic?
Unfortunately, we may never know these things, and the answer is most probably a personal one anyways, what else would anyone want?
The point here being that I still remember a lot from my Biology classes, and that's what matters to me.

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: Got to love that DC. : Of course, distinction of where non-life ends and where life begins is : arbitrarily decided by human scientists, although among valid : descriptions. Or you could take the road of panpsychism and say that : everything is alive in a sense, and I can buy into this. Level after level : in Biology you see the same patterns. Molecules, chains, cells, tissue, : organs, organ systems, organisms, families, cultures, cities, societies, : ecosystems, worlds...they are all levels of systems dependent on : eachother, like a huge friggin' machine. Is the solar system : "alive"? Not by the scientific sense, but it does operate as a : self-contained "thing" that came to be and will one day cease to : be, it uses and in some ways generates energy. : What really : Where ribosomes and RNA come in. A lot of people have a difficult time : grasping this aspect of what really isn't evolution, but an origin other : than a bearded guy saying "let it be". It's explained rather : well in most high-school Biology books these days. Long story short is you : got a group of molecules that just took on life-like characteristics. : "Magically"? "Just like that"? No. It's based on : circumstance, the rightr place at the right time. Makes you wonder how : many right places and times there were intersected eachother in the : universe. Life started very, very simply. Life: miracle or circumstantial : inevitability? : Given enough time and the right environment, anything will : Making me homesick here. : Of course, this is the same entropy to which we will all succumb, as it : requires a lot of energy to move uphill, and there is an inevitable end to : the wear and tear it causes to your body and mind. Elasticin enzymes snap, : and wrinkles appear. Cells take longer to generate or regenerate. You : leave the turn signal on when you drive. The question to me is, what is : the benefit of having a phenomenon such as life that seems : counter-directional to the flow of things? Could it be that life is a mere : anomaly, or are there deeper implications? Or is it possible I'm starting : to sound overdramatic? : Unfortunately, we may never know these things, and the answer is most : probably a personal one anyways, what else would anyone want? : The point here being that I still remember a lot from my Biology classes, and : that's what matters to me.

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help me out...to read this	goran	4/4/04 3:04 p.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Yossarian	4/4/04 6:30 p.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	ukimalefu	4/4/04 8:33 p.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	goran	4/5/04 12:01 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Steve Levinson	4/5/04 6:46 p.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	goran	4/6/04 5:16 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Steve Levinson	4/6/04 6:54 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Johannes Gunnar	4/6/04 7:42 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	goran	4/6/04 9:08 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Steve Levinson	4/6/04 10:21 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Yossarian	4/6/04 11:51 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	goran	4/6/04 2:19 p.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Steve Levinson	4/6/04 9:41 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	goran	4/6/04 9:14 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Steve Levinson	4/6/04 10:36 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Yossarian	4/6/04 11:40 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Forrest of B.org	4/6/04 5:03 p.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Yossarian	4/6/04 6:13 p.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Forrest of B.org	4/7/04 7:04 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Steve Levinson	4/7/04 8:34 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Forrest of B.org	4/7/04 10:41 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Forrest of B.org	4/7/04 10:41 a.m.
Appologies for the double-posts...	Forrest of B.org	4/7/04 10:42 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Steve Levinson	4/7/04 11:36 a.m.
Fobo's "Philosophy..." (part 1 rough draft)	Forrest of B.org	4/10/04 12:09 p.m.
Yikes!!! NM	ukimalefu	4/10/04 4:21 p.m.
I'll wait for Cliff's Notes NM	Siphonopho	4/10/04 7:34 p.m.
Re: Fobo's "Philosophy..." (part 1 rough draft)	Yossarian	4/10/04 7:51 p.m.
Re: Fobo's "Philosophy..." (part 1 rough draft)	Forrest of B.org	4/10/04 10:27 p.m.
Re: Fobo's "Philosophy..." (part 1 rough draft)	Yossarian	4/11/04 2:55 p.m.
Re: Fobo's "Philosophy..." (part 1 rough draft)	Forrest of B.org	4/12/04 8:13 a.m.
Re: Fobo's "Philosophy..." (part 1 rough draft)	Yossarian	4/12/04 4:41 p.m.
Re: Fobo's "Philosophy..." (part 1 rough draft)	Elliott	4/11/04 5:24 p.m.
Re: Fobo's "Philosophy..." (part 1 rough draft)	Yossarian	4/11/04 7:04 p.m.
Re: Fobo's "Philosophy..." (part 1 rough draft)	Elliott	4/11/04 10:25 p.m.
Re: Fobo's "Philosophy..." (part 1 rough draft)	Lt Devon	4/10/04 9:55 p.m.
INRTLB :-P NM	ukimalefu	4/11/04 12:56 p.m.
You have a lot of mental energy.	K-chi	4/11/04 1:19 p.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	goran	4/5/04 12:32 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	ukimalefu	4/5/04 5:10 p.m.
THE MATRIX HAS YOU!	ukimalefu	4/6/04 11:18 a.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Vid Boi	4/6/04 2:04 p.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Johannes Gunnar	4/6/04 3:14 p.m.
Re: help me out...to read this	Adam Ashwell	4/6/04 4:19 p.m.
Army of Darkness NM	Yossarian	4/6/04 4:30 p.m.
But originally from The Day the Earth Stood Still NM	the Battle Cat	4/7/04 6:37 a.m.
One of the greatest Sci-Fi movies of all time NM	Steve Levinson	4/7/04 8:22 a.m.
Myth II: Soulblighter. The Deceiver. [no message] NM	Andrew Nagy	4/7/04 5:14 p.m.



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	Message: : Got to love that DC. : Of course, distinction of where non-life ends and where life begins is : arbitrarily decided by human scientists, although among valid : descriptions. Or you could take the road of panpsychism and say that : everything is alive in a sense, and I can buy into this. Level after level : in Biology you see the same patterns. Molecules, chains, cells, tissue, : organs, organ systems, organisms, families, cultures, cities, societies, : ecosystems, worlds...they are all levels of systems dependent on : eachother, like a huge friggin' machine. Is the solar system : "alive"? Not by the scientific sense, but it does operate as a : self-contained "thing" that came to be and will one day cease to : be, it uses and in some ways generates energy. : What really : Where ribosomes and RNA come in. A lot of people have a difficult time : grasping this aspect of what really isn't evolution, but an origin other : than a bearded guy saying "let it be". It's explained rather : well in most high-school Biology books these days. Long story short is you : got a group of molecules that just took on life-like characteristics. : "Magically"? "Just like that"? No. It's based on : circumstance, the rightr place at the right time. Makes you wonder how : many right places and times there were intersected eachother in the : universe. Life started very, very simply. Life: miracle or circumstantial : inevitability? : Given enough time and the right environment, anything will : Making me homesick here. : Of course, this is the same entropy to which we will all succumb, as it : requires a lot of energy to move uphill, and there is an inevitable end to : the wear and tear it causes to your body and mind. Elasticin enzymes snap, : and wrinkles appear. Cells take longer to generate or regenerate. You : leave the turn signal on when you drive. The question to me is, what is : the benefit of having a phenomenon such as life that seems : counter-directional to the flow of things? Could it be that life is a mere : anomaly, or are there deeper implications? Or is it possible I'm starting : to sound overdramatic? : Unfortunately, we may never know these things, and the answer is most : probably a personal one anyways, what else would anyone want? : The point here being that I still remember a lot from my Biology classes, and : that's what matters to me.
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