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	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario
	Posted By: goran	Date: 4/2/04 11:02 a.m.
	In Response To: Re: Best 3rd pary scenario (C Lund) : Ah, but how does one make the player "flow" in the right direction : without reducing his/her choise of paths to one? Every time you add an : alternate route you'll make some players get lost. Does that mean maps : with flow only have one path? No, it don't. It means that the player should always be rewared to some point whereever he goes. Think of flow as the players face, if you have a good flow he will be smiling most of the time. I know, it's a bad picture really, and I'm no master to explain flow either. : I agree with your definition of "flow" meaning the player flows : like a river through the map. But my rivers break up into lots of tiny : channels before remerging at the end, while most rivers tend to just flow : through the one big channel. Your river maybe runs through a delta and exists in the same sea. ;) You could try to break up your rivers and remerge them at different points in the map instead of one, or locking off a section, creating small mazes in a linear way, and have this linear way in itself split up and remerge. What I think it is important is that the levels goals are executed in the right way. A player shouldn't end up at a switch that needs something on the very opposite end of the level to be switched, because he missed it on the way. : I don't consider flow and exploration to be orthogonal values. BTW: I was a : bit hasty yesterday when I wrote that I couldn't remember any games that : had non-linear maps. Ghost Recon (which I'm currently playing for the : second time) has lots of non-linear maps. There are also some occasional : levels in Marathon that are non-linear (converted church, for instance). or maybe even better, aye mak sicur. I like levels which has a little of each like the first infinity level "ne cedi malis", ah, it's spelled something like that. It had linear goals but still offered a sense of freedom and nonlinearity. Or arrow and slings in m2, it had a 2 path linear way to the goal and at the same time many many small paths along the main ones to ammo cages and such. It too, had a good balance of linearity and nonlinearity. : The thing is, most players have *not* complained about it. As I've stated : before, the critics of Rubicon fall into three groups: Frigid and his : "court", the Tempus team, and l33t dudes who were expecting : Quake 4. And then there are the occasional others like yourself who just : didn't like it. Yep, we can agree about that, but for the record I don't dislike rubicon very much there's just some things that's not my style in the scenario. I am trying to tell you through these post what it is that's disturbing me. : So what I'm seeing is that *some* players hate Rubicon while most enjoyed it. : You can do a google on rubicon if you want and read the player reviews. You don't need to prove anything to me Lund, what other thinks are not the concern of my own thoughts when I critize. I know that rubicon is a good scenario that many had enjoyed playing through. : The moral is that there is no pleasing everybody. Rubicon seems to have : pleased over half the players and that's good enough for me. It's : unfortunate that you are not one of them, but that is not my problem. Very unfortunate indeed. But you should know just because I'm giving you negative feedback doesn't automatically say I wasn't pleased at all. On the whole you pleased me, but in detail there are things that don't go along with me. : Out of curiousity - which of those levels were they? I don't have acces to my mac at this moment, but I let you know tomorrow. : I make maps for people who want something other than the standard : "railroad" map. Products aimed at "the people" tend to : be aimed at the lowest common denominator. Hollywood does that, and as a : result their movies stink. Airline food is also aimed at the lowest common : denominator, and as a result their food is utterly bland. I didn't want to : make a game like that. : I expected some players to be put off by my map designs. I wasn't prepared : for the absolute hatred some felt for them though. Still, a product that : players either love or hate is more interesting than a product everybody : thinks is "ok". I agree with you on this one.

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Replies:

	Best 3rd pary scenario	Mneub12	3/26/04 6:00 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	the Battle Cat	3/26/04 6:31 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Steve Levinson	3/26/04 8:05 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Mneub12	3/26/04 8:16 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Steve Levinson	3/26/04 8:34 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Boomer	3/26/04 8:49 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Steve Levinson	3/26/04 10:02 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Adam Ashwell	3/26/04 11:39 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Elliott	3/26/04 1:46 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	goran	3/27/04 9:55 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Adam Ashwell	3/27/04 10:00 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	goran	3/27/04 10:43 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Boomer	3/28/04 2:09 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Adam Ashwell	3/28/04 4:51 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Elliott	3/27/04 11:54 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	the Battle Cat	3/28/04 7:38 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	goran	3/27/04 10:52 a.m.
	Marathon: Dissent	rampancy	4/6/04 9:41 a.m.
	Re: Marathon: Dissent	Steve Levinson	4/6/04 10:09 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Little Kago	3/28/04 1:46 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Elliott	3/28/04 7:10 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	the Battle Cat	3/29/04 6:10 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Steve Levinson	3/28/04 8:58 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Little Kago	3/29/04 8:28 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Steve Levinson	3/29/04 8:59 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Adam Ashwell	3/29/04 12:51 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	C Lund	3/31/04 11:51 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	goran	4/1/04 12:37 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Steve Levinson	4/1/04 1:05 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	goran	4/1/04 9:21 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Simon	4/1/04 1:15 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	goran	4/1/04 9:33 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	C Lund	4/1/04 10:49 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	goran	4/2/04 10:18 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	C Lund	4/2/04 10:58 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	goran	4/2/04 11:13 a.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	C Lund	4/2/04 11:43 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Yossarian	4/2/04 11:54 a.m.
	Rubicon Textures	Anaphiel	4/2/04 1:31 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	C Lund	4/1/04 10:37 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	Yossarian	4/1/04 11:31 p.m.
	Re: Best 3rd pary scenario	goran	4/2/04 11:02 a.m.
	Out of curiosity . . .	Steve Levinson	4/3/04 4:18 p.m.
	Re: Out of curiosity . . .	C Lund	4/3/04 8:26 p.m.
	Re: Out of curiosity . . .	C Lund	4/4/04 4:15 a.m.
	excuse? my ass. This is fun.	goran	4/4/04 8:10 a.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	D-M.A.	4/4/04 9:02 a.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	goran	4/4/04 11:24 a.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	D-M.A.	4/4/04 11:46 a.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	goran	4/4/04 2:16 p.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	C Lund	4/5/04 2:28 a.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	D-M.A.	4/5/04 7:38 a.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	C Lund	4/5/04 2:25 a.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	goran	4/5/04 8:16 a.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	Elliott	4/5/04 8:49 a.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	goran	4/5/04 11:04 a.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	Yossarian	4/5/04 11:35 a.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	goran	4/5/04 3:57 p.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	Elliott	4/5/04 3:25 p.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	goran	4/5/04 3:35 p.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	Jacke	4/6/04 2:10 a.m.
	Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.	C Lund	4/6/04 12:03 a.m.
	Re: Out of curiosity . . .	Steve Levinson	4/4/04 5:14 p.m.
	Re: Out of curiosity . . .	Elliott	4/4/04 9:11 p.m.
	Re: Out of curiosity . . .	C Lund	4/5/04 2:30 a.m.
	Re: Out of curiosity . . .	Steve Levinson	4/7/04 6:35 a.m.
	Re: Out of curiosity . . .	goran	4/4/04 8:13 a.m.

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