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Re: Best 3rd pary scenario
Posted By: C LundDate: 3/31/04 11:51 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Best 3rd pary scenario (Little Kago)

: well, frigidman's review of rubicon sums up what i think awfully well. i
: really hate to sound like a me-too'er, but i don't know what i can add
: that he didn't say (except maybe some vehement swearing and cursing). no
: flow and no fun makes jack an extremely unhappy gamer. and bad lighting
: and dull textures make him even unhappier.

Some of Fridgid's review was a matter of taste - such as the "dull textures" bit. We made our textures non-garish, and that looks dull to some But other parts of what he said struck me as nothing but searching for excuses to slag Rubicon. Complaining about pre-dead bobs? Give me a break...

: what do i find in TI that i don't find in rubicon? i hate repeating myself,
: but the maps simply have no flow whatsoever. as borzz said on agm,
: "Consider flow like the path of a river - it starts somewhere and
: creates a path to its logical conclussion." - there's hardly any of
: that in rubicon; there, it's more like "splash into a huge lake and
: circulate around erratically and eventually dribble out somehere".
: usually a just a few minutes into each level i found myself just wandering
: aimlessly around killing things, wondering just where the hell i am, what
: the hell a certain switch is or isn't doing, and very quickly just wanting
: to GET THE HELL OFF the map on almost ALL of the levels.

What makes good or bad flow is obviously a question of taste. Some people hate Rubicon because the levels have bad flow, others love Rubicon because the levels have good flow. Flow is iow subjective.

But I am well aware that I have a completely different philosophy wrt map layout than that of most cartographers, and many players hate it. Most levels in every game I've ever played are basically a linear set of track curled up into itself. The player can only take one route through a map. The players have no choises, no alternate routes, and are stuck on the rails the mapmaker has put down for them. This is what the critics of Rubicon think of as "flow". I call it "railroading". Railroading obviously works, since most games use it and the players don't complain, but I'd like to be able to go in all sorts of directions and explore rather than just follow the preset path.
And that's why most of my maps are wide open. The player can go in any direction they want. Instead of just killing everything in an area and then leaving through the *one* exit, the player has three or four exits to choose from, each leading to different areas. The real world works like this.

But I can see how players who prefer to just follow a linear path would be frustrated by my maps. Personally, I feel hemmed in by linear maps. I like being able to take alternate routes. To me, flow is a much subtle thing than simply making a map linear.

: also, TC
: difficulty is not "challenging nearly or at the point of frustration
: but still fun" but "idiotically difficult and teeth-grinding,
: keyboard-smashing frustrating".

Kinda like playing RED on "normal" difficulty then.. ;)

: you'd have to be blind to not see the sincere work work people put into it.
: there are some clever tricks here and there, but i believe the rubicon
: team placed style and design priority way, waaayyyy over playability and
: enjoyability (or functionality - a clear example of where their priority
: lies would be those pathetic "maps" given in the walkthrough
: guide in the original install). i just do not believe it is the sum of its
: parts, not by a long shot.

The walkthrough maps that came with the game were the way they were because *I* didn't want to include a step by step walkthrough with the initial release and that was the compromise. The *real* walkthrough/spoiler was released on the Rubicon website instead.

I'm sorry to hear you didn't like Rubicon, but that's only to be expected when one does something that is different. When one tries to make something everybody likes, one ends up with airline food (or McDonald's - echh).

C Lund

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Best 3rd pary scenarioMneub12 3/26/04 6:00 a.m.
     Re: Best 3rd pary scenariothe Battle Cat 3/26/04 6:31 a.m.
           Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioSteve Levinson 3/26/04 8:05 a.m.
                 Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioMneub12 3/26/04 8:16 a.m.
                       Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioSteve Levinson 3/26/04 8:34 a.m.
                             Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioBoomer 3/26/04 8:49 a.m.
                                   Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioSteve Levinson 3/26/04 10:02 a.m.
                                         Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioAdam Ashwell 3/26/04 11:39 a.m.
                                               Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioElliott 3/26/04 1:46 p.m.
                                                     Re: Best 3rd pary scenariogoran 3/27/04 9:55 a.m.
                                                           Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioAdam Ashwell 3/27/04 10:00 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Best 3rd pary scenariogoran 3/27/04 10:43 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioBoomer 3/28/04 2:09 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioAdam Ashwell 3/28/04 4:51 p.m.
                                                           Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioElliott 3/27/04 11:54 a.m.
                                                           Re: Best 3rd pary scenariothe Battle Cat 3/28/04 7:38 a.m.
                                   Re: Best 3rd pary scenariogoran 3/27/04 10:52 a.m.
                 Marathon: Dissentrampancy 4/6/04 9:41 a.m.
                       Re: Marathon: DissentSteve Levinson 4/6/04 10:09 a.m.
     Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioLittle Kago 3/28/04 1:46 p.m.
           Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioElliott 3/28/04 7:10 p.m.
                 Re: Best 3rd pary scenariothe Battle Cat 3/29/04 6:10 a.m.
           Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioSteve Levinson 3/28/04 8:58 p.m.
                 Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioLittle Kago 3/29/04 8:28 a.m.
                       Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioSteve Levinson 3/29/04 8:59 a.m.
                             Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioAdam Ashwell 3/29/04 12:51 p.m.
                       Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioC Lund 3/31/04 11:51 p.m.
                             Re: Best 3rd pary scenariogoran 4/1/04 12:37 p.m.
                                   Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioSteve Levinson 4/1/04 1:05 p.m.
                                         Re: Best 3rd pary scenariogoran 4/1/04 9:21 p.m.
                                   Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioSimon 4/1/04 1:15 p.m.
                                         Re: Best 3rd pary scenariogoran 4/1/04 9:33 p.m.
                                               Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioC Lund 4/1/04 10:49 p.m.
                                                     Re: Best 3rd pary scenariogoran 4/2/04 10:18 a.m.
                                                           Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioC Lund 4/2/04 10:58 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Best 3rd pary scenariogoran 4/2/04 11:13 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioC Lund 4/2/04 11:43 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioYossarian 4/2/04 11:54 a.m.
                                                                       Rubicon TexturesAnaphiel 4/2/04 1:31 p.m.
                                   Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioC Lund 4/1/04 10:37 p.m.
                                         Re: Best 3rd pary scenarioYossarian 4/1/04 11:31 p.m.
                                         Re: Best 3rd pary scenariogoran 4/2/04 11:02 a.m.
                                               Out of curiosity . . .Steve Levinson 4/3/04 4:18 p.m.
                                                     Re: Out of curiosity . . .C Lund 4/3/04 8:26 p.m.
                                                           Re: Out of curiosity . . .C Lund 4/4/04 4:15 a.m.
                                                                 excuse? my ass. This is fun.goran 4/4/04 8:10 a.m.
                                                                       Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.D-M.A. 4/4/04 9:02 a.m.
                                                                             Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.goran 4/4/04 11:24 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.D-M.A. 4/4/04 11:46 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.goran 4/4/04 2:16 p.m.
                                                                             Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.C Lund 4/5/04 2:28 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.D-M.A. 4/5/04 7:38 a.m.
                                                                       Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.C Lund 4/5/04 2:25 a.m.
                                                                             Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.goran 4/5/04 8:16 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.Elliott 4/5/04 8:49 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.goran 4/5/04 11:04 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.Yossarian 4/5/04 11:35 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.goran 4/5/04 3:57 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.Elliott 4/5/04 3:25 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.goran 4/5/04 3:35 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.Jacke 4/6/04 2:10 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: excuse? my ass. This is fun.C Lund 4/6/04 12:03 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Out of curiosity . . .Steve Levinson 4/4/04 5:14 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Out of curiosity . . .Elliott 4/4/04 9:11 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Out of curiosity . . .C Lund 4/5/04 2:30 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Out of curiosity . . .Steve Levinson 4/7/04 6:35 a.m.
                                                     Re: Out of curiosity . . .goran 4/4/04 8:13 a.m.

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