/-/S'pht-Translator-Active/-/


Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts
Posted By: Tycho7enDate: 1/13/02 3:06 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts (SiliconDream =PN=)

: Well...from the Cyborg's point of view, there's not a lot of difference
: between a multiverse with different timelines, and a single universe with
: changing pasts and futures. How might we distinguish between the two?

: For one thing, a single fluid universe should be altering all the time,
: according to the will of the W'rkncacnter (or chance). But we don't see
: that happening. Each arc of levels (usually three or more) is perfectly
: self-consistent. History only alters after your time jumps, never while
: you're just wandering around killing people.

Perhaps. I think that these "time jumps" are really just interludes between the W'r monster's dreams. You're trapped in his dreams, and you're the only person who can have any affect on their outcome.

It's a dream, many dreams, numerous deadly dreams, but once it's over it's as if they never happened. Do the dreams have a direct affect on what happens in the next? Not until you merge Durandal and Thoth, and the resulting entity instructs you to capture the W'r monster once and for all.

I still see the Marine as a servant. The marine serves it's master, the greater entity. Of course, he does have some bias... up until Marathon Infinity, he was fighting for humanity. In Infinity, he's fighting for order in a chaotic universe. Do actions have consequences in a chaotic universe? To some extent, they do in MI. But oddly enough, your actions seem to have a constant affect the W'r monster's dreams... is this what Durandal meant when he said "You are Destiny"?

: Also, you're constantly being exhorted to find the right path which will take
: you to a successful future, and that seems a bit odd if there is no
: right path. If the W'krncacnter's simply rewriting history periodically,
: then there's nothing really for you to do...just sit around and hope that
: eventually he rewrites himself back into prison.

Not quite. You're Destiny... that's what stops the chaos in the end. You're the only person who can change the outcome. That's the right path... disobeying your role (shades of Arthur Frain?) in the dream to change the outcome completely.

Might I add, the W'r monster's not rewriting the book of history, he's rewriting the rules of the universe. It's his dreaming grounds, now. As I said, what happens when you wake up? Do your dreams radically change your world when you wake up? Of course not, you wake up as if nothing happened. And that's what the "dream" levels are for... the W'r monster goes through a stage of subconscious, only to start dreaming again. The only thing that's constant through the W'r monsters dreams is the player's actions... Durandal can't change what happens until you merge him with Thoth. Everything's just a theater, a play, an opera. Everyone's the W'r monster's marionette, but you're somehow free from his control.

: Both of these indicate that altering history is your job, not the
: W'rkncacnter's. (Although certainly the W'rkncacnter could make it easier,
: and I think that's why you can always jump back from a failed future).

No, it's not altering history. It's doing something different, something that you haven't done before. You haven't tried changing your role in his dreams, have you? You've always been the servant, your master is a variable. Up until Strange Aeons, when you suddenly have a degree of free will...

: Tycho also blames you for the timeline shifts, and in fact depicts the
: W'rkncacnter (doubt) as opposed to them.

That's based on how you interpret the terminals. Even so, part of that interpretation fits with my theory. You've been fighting "doubt" itself, right? You're fighting the W'r monster, but you've never thought of that until Strange Aeons. Until then, you've been a servant. How do you fight "doubt"? You break character in "doubt"'s dreams.

: As for whether there's one or many universes...the Ne Cede Malis terminal is
: pretty definite on that, I think. "Thousands are sailing."
: "A line of infinite ends." And then there are all the dream
: terminal lines about finding the right "way" or
: "path", which is only meaningful if there's a probabilityscape
: of multiple timelines for that path to wind through.

The "path" is the path you make through these dreams. Notice how your actions affect "doubt"'s (I'm sticking with this instead of "w'r monster", it's easier to type) later dreams. "Thousands are sailing" are not timelines, it's everyone affected by the W'r monster's many dreams, unable to change the path. Everyone else is skimming the surface, letting the current flow. The marine does the same, but he later realizes that if he follows the current, nothing's going to change. "A line of infinite ends" is referring to the many ends to the W'r monsters dreams... yet the path continues through the W'r monster's other dreams and you're stuck with a constant, nightmarish ending for each dream unless you can make it stop.

[ | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Dream Terminal ThoughtsSiliconDream =PN= 1/13/02 1:53 a.m.
     Good grief!Hamish Sinclair 1/13/02 5:44 a.m.
           Holy Doctoral Thesis Batman! *NT* *NM*Ernie 1/15/02 3:27 p.m.
     Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsMark Levin 1/13/02 6:46 a.m.
           Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsTycho7en 1/13/02 8:20 a.m.
                 Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsCpt. Sqweky 1/14/02 8:32 p.m.
           Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsSiliconDream =PN= 1/13/02 3:47 p.m.
                 Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsAndrew Nagy 1/14/02 7:00 a.m.
                       Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsSiliconDream =PN= 1/14/02 1:54 p.m.
                       Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsSiliconDream =PN= 1/14/02 2:59 p.m.
                             Duplicate post, sorry *NM*SiliconDream =PN= 1/14/02 3:04 p.m.
                             Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsAndrew Nagy 1/18/02 7:24 a.m.
                                   Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsTru7h 1/18/02 9:11 a.m.
                                   Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsSiliconDream =PN= 1/18/02 1:10 p.m.
           Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsAndrew Nagy 1/14/02 7:00 a.m.
     Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsTycho7en 1/13/02 7:43 a.m.
           Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsSiliconDream =PN= 1/13/02 1:22 p.m.
                 Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsTycho7en 1/13/02 3:06 p.m.
                       Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsSiliconDream =PN= 1/13/02 11:31 p.m.
                             Wow, it all makes sense now!Jonah 1/15/02 12:37 a.m.
                             Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsTycho7en 1/15/02 4:04 p.m.
     Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsRincewind MoG 1/13/02 1:23 p.m.
     Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsTru7h 1/13/02 1:49 p.m.
           Re: Dream Terminal ThoughtsSiliconDream =PN= 1/13/02 3:59 p.m.
                 Oh, and...SiliconDream =PN= 1/13/02 4:01 p.m.
                       Re: Oh, and...Smasher 1/13/02 7:29 p.m.
                             Re: Oh, and...SiliconDream =PN= 1/13/02 10:55 p.m.



Problems? Suggestions? Comments? Email maintainer@bungie.org

Marathon's Story Forum is maintained with WebBBS 5.12.