I guess I'll chime in on this


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I guess I'll chime in on this

Posted By: Steve Levinson Date: 5/8/05 4:23 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Question... (Mister Chief)

: Sorry, I meant it's a sequel in every thing but name :P
It's amazing how this theme keeps coming up. Whether or not Halo started out as a Marathon sequel is pure conjecture. I personally don't believe this to be the case for the simple reason - why would Bungie have made a Marathon sequel at this point in time? Although development on Halo began some years ago, the original Marathon engine was already quite dated and I can't believe that any game developers in their right minds would create a new game that depended on newbies to go back and play an old game. Remember that Marathon is heavily driven by its story and there would be just too much story to convey at the beginning of Halo were this to be the case. On top of that, we have Bungie making it clear that the Halo Universe is not the Marathon Universe and it's pretty hard to see Halo as a sequel. Further, although there are many similarities, there are even more inconsistincies and incompatibilities that any pretense of Halo ever being considered as a sequel becomes too hard to swallow.
Let's step out of the realm of rabbid gamers trying to find significance in arcane plot elements and step into the minds of the developers. You have a series of very successful games on your hands, but nothing nothing that has ever made the big time. There are fans to be sure, but the fanbase is limited, and most of them use Macs while the real gamers are on consoles and PC's. Although your more recent games have incorporated the latest in gaming technology and have been successful, Marathon remains the most entheusiastically embraced game you have ever done. You want to break into the greater gaming community and you want to build on your past successes, but you can't expect the market you hope to sell to to be familiar with your earlier games.
I believe that in this frame of reference, Bungie chose to use Marathon as a foundation for the development of Halo, but not as its prequel. They took what they thought worked well in Marathon - FPS action, science fiction, a compelling story, AI's and battleroids, and simplified things to make it easier for the masses to get into gameplay. In many ways the Pfhor and their client races became the Covenent and instead of them being enslavers, they became religious fanatics bent on humanity's destruction. Since modern gamers had too short an attention span to be expected to read a bunch of backstory on a series of terminals, everything had to be conveyed through cutscenes. Beyond this, Halo and Marathon completely diverge. The fact that the Marathon symbol was incorporated into Halo is a nod to Bungie's past and nothing more.
Don't get me wrong - Halo is a very nice game. It's a lot of fun, but I find the cutscenes to be an incredible distraction to gameplay and I find the action to be surprisingly tedious in spots. As I read in a recent review of Doom 3, much of Halo can be summarized as - enter room, kill all the monsters inside, enter next room. Marathon has so much more depth, particularly in the development of its story, that I'll never tire of it. That's whay I claim that Halo is a dumbed-down version of Marathon. I understand why Bungie made it this way, but it's hard to extol its virtues when we know how much better it could have been. The one thing Halo is not is a sequel to Marathon, nor was it ever likely meant to be.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Question... Andromeda_5[Kilo] 5/3/05 3:52 p.m.

Yes. Covenent luke9 5/3/05 3:59 p.m.

Re: Yes. Covenent John Molloy 7/20/05 4:32 p.m.

Re: Yes. Covenent Yossarian 7/20/05 7:15 p.m.

Re: Yes. Covenent John Molloy 7/20/05 7:32 p.m.

Re: Yes. Covenent Yossarian 7/20/05 7:54 p.m.

Re: Question... •M 5/3/05 4:01 p.m.

Re: Question... Bob-B-Q 5/3/05 5:56 p.m.

Re: Question... Johannes Gunnar 5/3/05 10:54 p.m.

*Waits for Forrest to show up* *NM* Reiginko 5/4/05 4:12 a.m.

Re: *Waits for Forrest to show up* Forrest of B.org 5/4/05 8:14 a.m.

Re: *Waits for Forrest to show up* John Molloy 7/20/05 4:39 p.m.

Re: *Waits for Forrest to show up* Forrest of B.org 7/20/05 4:52 p.m.

Re: *Waits for Forrest to show up* John Molloy 7/20/05 5:06 p.m.

Re: *Waits for Forrest to show up* Yossarian 7/20/05 7:12 p.m.

Re: *Waits for Forrest to show up* John Molloy 7/20/05 7:26 p.m.

Perhaps there's still a hope maxbz 7/26/05 1:00 p.m.

Re: Perhaps there's still a hope Johannes Gunnar 7/26/05 1:44 p.m.

Re: Perhaps there's still a hope blake37 7/26/05 2:44 p.m.

Re: Perhaps there's still a hope LegacyTyphoon 7/28/05 1:08 p.m.

Re: Perhaps there's still a hope Johannes Gunnar 7/29/05 3:56 a.m.

Foe Hammer is Gandalf's sword! *NM* ukimalefu 5/4/05 5:45 p.m.

Not a sequel - an updated, dumbed down Marathon *NM* Steve Levinson 5/4/05 4:16 a.m.

Re: Question... Mister Chief 5/7/05 3:14 p.m.

Re: Question... Mister Chief 5/7/05 3:16 p.m.

Re: Question... luke9 5/7/05 6:27 p.m.

I guess I'll chime in on this Steve Levinson 5/8/05 4:23 a.m.

*solemnly nods in agreement* *NM* Yossarian 5/8/05 5:53 a.m.

Aye. Full agreement here. *NM* luke9 5/8/05 9:40 a.m.

OH MY GOD Vid Boi 5/9/05 12:31 a.m.

Maybe not, sounds more like a MicroSoft thing :-) *NM* D-M.A. 5/9/05 12:51 a.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Mister Chief 5/9/05 6:38 a.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Andromeda_5[Kilo] 5/9/05 6:49 a.m.

Ugh, you sound like ForceMorph! *NM* Bob-B-Q 5/9/05 7:12 a.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Deathmonger 5/9/05 8:59 a.m.

My thoughts exactly... *NM* Bob-B-Q 5/9/05 10:13 a.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Mister Chief 5/12/05 8:29 a.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Steve Levinson 5/12/05 1:45 p.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Reiginko 5/14/05 5:39 a.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Forrest of B.org 5/9/05 7:50 a.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Nick Hoad 5/9/05 12:40 p.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Forrest of B.org 5/9/05 2:46 p.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Andromeda_5[Kilo] 5/9/05 5:11 p.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Forrest of B.org 5/9/05 8:09 p.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Reiginko 5/9/05 9:13 p.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Vid Boi 5/10/05 4:56 a.m.

Give me a break! *NM* Steve Levinson 5/12/05 1:49 p.m.

Yes... and no. Claude Errera 5/10/05 5:16 a.m.

Re: Yes... and no. Kanen Faud'r 5/10/05 6:45 a.m.

Re: Yes... and no. Indeed ukimalefu 5/10/05 7:25 p.m.

Re: Yes... and no. Indeed Reiginko 5/10/05 10:00 p.m.

Re: Yes... and no. tom 5/11/05 9:12 a.m.

Bingo. Claude Errera 5/12/05 5:00 a.m.

Re: Bingo. tom 5/13/05 9:09 a.m.

Re: Yes... and no. Claude Errera 5/12/05 5:05 a.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Brian Wise 5/12/05 9:34 p.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this JoBar 6/5/05 5:45 a.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Adam Ashwell 6/5/05 6:28 a.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this JoBar 6/6/05 4:36 p.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Kyjel 6/6/05 5:01 p.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Forrest of B.org 6/7/05 8:16 a.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this Adam Ashwell 6/7/05 9:52 a.m.

Re: I guess I'll chime in on this eMCee 7/19/05 9:35 p.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: It's amazing how this theme keeps coming up. Whether or not Halo started out : as a Marathon sequel is pure conjecture. I personally don't believe this : to be the case for the simple reason - why would Bungie have made a : Marathon sequel at this point in time? Although development on Halo began : some years ago, the original Marathon engine was already quite dated and I : can't believe that any game developers in their right minds would create a : new game that depended on newbies to go back and play an old game. : Remember that Marathon is heavily driven by its story and there would be : just too much story to convey at the beginning of Halo were this to be the : case. On top of that, we have Bungie making it clear that the Halo : Universe is not the Marathon Universe and it's pretty hard to see Halo as : a sequel. Further, although there are many similarities, there are even : more inconsistincies and incompatibilities that any pretense of Halo ever : being considered as a sequel becomes too hard to swallow. : Let's step out of the realm of rabbid gamers trying to find significance in : arcane plot elements and step into the minds of the developers. You have a : series of very successful games on your hands, but nothing nothing that : has ever made the big time. There are fans to be sure, but the fanbase is : limited, and most of them use Macs while the real gamers are on consoles : and PC's. Although your more recent games have incorporated the latest in : gaming technology and have been successful, Marathon remains the most : entheusiastically embraced game you have ever done. You want to break into : the greater gaming community and you want to build on your past successes, : but you can't expect the market you hope to sell to to be familiar with : your earlier games. : I believe that in this frame of reference, Bungie chose to use Marathon as a : foundation for the development of Halo, but not as its prequel. They took : what they thought worked well in Marathon - FPS action, science fiction, a : compelling story, AI's and battleroids, and simplified things to make it : easier for the masses to get into gameplay. In many ways the Pfhor and : their client races became the Covenent and instead of them being : enslavers, they became religious fanatics bent on humanity's destruction. : Since modern gamers had too short an attention span to be expected to read : a bunch of backstory on a series of terminals, everything had to be : conveyed through cutscenes. Beyond this, Halo and Marathon completely : diverge. The fact that the Marathon symbol was incorporated into Halo is a : nod to Bungie's past and nothing more. : Don't get me wrong - Halo is a very nice game. It's a lot of fun, but I find : the cutscenes to be an incredible distraction to gameplay and I find the : action to be surprisingly tedious in spots. As I read in a recent review : of Doom 3, much of Halo can be summarized as - enter room, kill all the : monsters inside, enter next room. Marathon has so much more depth, : particularly in the development of its story, that I'll never tire of it. : That's whay I claim that Halo is a dumbed-down version of Marathon. I : understand why Bungie made it this way, but it's hard to extol its virtues : when we know how much better it could have been. The one thing Halo is not : is a sequel to Marathon, nor was it ever likely meant to be.

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Question...	Andromeda_5[Kilo]	5/3/05 3:52 p.m.
Yes. Covenent	luke9	5/3/05 3:59 p.m.
Re: Yes. Covenent	John Molloy	7/20/05 4:32 p.m.
Re: Yes. Covenent	Yossarian	7/20/05 7:15 p.m.
Re: Yes. Covenent	John Molloy	7/20/05 7:32 p.m.
Re: Yes. Covenent	Yossarian	7/20/05 7:54 p.m.
Re: Question...	•M	5/3/05 4:01 p.m.
Re: Question...	Bob-B-Q	5/3/05 5:56 p.m.
Re: Question...	Johannes Gunnar	5/3/05 10:54 p.m.
Waits for Forrest to show up NM	Reiginko	5/4/05 4:12 a.m.
Re: Waits for Forrest to show up	Forrest of B.org	5/4/05 8:14 a.m.
Re: Waits for Forrest to show up	John Molloy	7/20/05 4:39 p.m.
Re: Waits for Forrest to show up	Forrest of B.org	7/20/05 4:52 p.m.
Re: Waits for Forrest to show up	John Molloy	7/20/05 5:06 p.m.
Re: Waits for Forrest to show up	Yossarian	7/20/05 7:12 p.m.
Re: Waits for Forrest to show up	John Molloy	7/20/05 7:26 p.m.
Perhaps there's still a hope	maxbz	7/26/05 1:00 p.m.
Re: Perhaps there's still a hope	Johannes Gunnar	7/26/05 1:44 p.m.
Re: Perhaps there's still a hope	blake37	7/26/05 2:44 p.m.
Re: Perhaps there's still a hope	LegacyTyphoon	7/28/05 1:08 p.m.
Re: Perhaps there's still a hope	Johannes Gunnar	7/29/05 3:56 a.m.
Foe Hammer is Gandalf's sword! NM	ukimalefu	5/4/05 5:45 p.m.
Not a sequel - an updated, dumbed down Marathon NM	Steve Levinson	5/4/05 4:16 a.m.
Re: Question...	Mister Chief	5/7/05 3:14 p.m.
Re: Question...	Mister Chief	5/7/05 3:16 p.m.
Re: Question...	luke9	5/7/05 6:27 p.m.
I guess I'll chime in on this	Steve Levinson	5/8/05 4:23 a.m.
solemnly nods in agreement NM	Yossarian	5/8/05 5:53 a.m.
Aye. Full agreement here. NM	luke9	5/8/05 9:40 a.m.
OH MY GOD	Vid Boi	5/9/05 12:31 a.m.
Maybe not, sounds more like a MicroSoft thing :-) NM	D-M.A.	5/9/05 12:51 a.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Mister Chief	5/9/05 6:38 a.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Andromeda_5[Kilo]	5/9/05 6:49 a.m.
Ugh, you sound like ForceMorph! NM	Bob-B-Q	5/9/05 7:12 a.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Deathmonger	5/9/05 8:59 a.m.
My thoughts exactly... NM	Bob-B-Q	5/9/05 10:13 a.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Mister Chief	5/12/05 8:29 a.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Steve Levinson	5/12/05 1:45 p.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Reiginko	5/14/05 5:39 a.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Forrest of B.org	5/9/05 7:50 a.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Nick Hoad	5/9/05 12:40 p.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Forrest of B.org	5/9/05 2:46 p.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Andromeda_5[Kilo]	5/9/05 5:11 p.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Forrest of B.org	5/9/05 8:09 p.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Reiginko	5/9/05 9:13 p.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Vid Boi	5/10/05 4:56 a.m.
Give me a break! NM	Steve Levinson	5/12/05 1:49 p.m.
Yes... and no.	Claude Errera	5/10/05 5:16 a.m.
Re: Yes... and no.	Kanen Faud'r	5/10/05 6:45 a.m.
Re: Yes... and no. Indeed	ukimalefu	5/10/05 7:25 p.m.
Re: Yes... and no. Indeed	Reiginko	5/10/05 10:00 p.m.
Re: Yes... and no.	tom	5/11/05 9:12 a.m.
Bingo.	Claude Errera	5/12/05 5:00 a.m.
Re: Bingo.	tom	5/13/05 9:09 a.m.
Re: Yes... and no.	Claude Errera	5/12/05 5:05 a.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Brian Wise	5/12/05 9:34 p.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	JoBar	6/5/05 5:45 a.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Adam Ashwell	6/5/05 6:28 a.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	JoBar	6/6/05 4:36 p.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Kyjel	6/6/05 5:01 p.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Forrest of B.org	6/7/05 8:16 a.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	Adam Ashwell	6/7/05 9:52 a.m.
Re: I guess I'll chime in on this	eMCee	7/19/05 9:35 p.m.



	Your Name:
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	Subject:
	Message: : It's amazing how this theme keeps coming up. Whether or not Halo started out : as a Marathon sequel is pure conjecture. I personally don't believe this : to be the case for the simple reason - why would Bungie have made a : Marathon sequel at this point in time? Although development on Halo began : some years ago, the original Marathon engine was already quite dated and I : can't believe that any game developers in their right minds would create a : new game that depended on newbies to go back and play an old game. : Remember that Marathon is heavily driven by its story and there would be : just too much story to convey at the beginning of Halo were this to be the : case. On top of that, we have Bungie making it clear that the Halo : Universe is not the Marathon Universe and it's pretty hard to see Halo as : a sequel. Further, although there are many similarities, there are even : more inconsistincies and incompatibilities that any pretense of Halo ever : being considered as a sequel becomes too hard to swallow. : Let's step out of the realm of rabbid gamers trying to find significance in : arcane plot elements and step into the minds of the developers. You have a : series of very successful games on your hands, but nothing nothing that : has ever made the big time. There are fans to be sure, but the fanbase is : limited, and most of them use Macs while the real gamers are on consoles : and PC's. Although your more recent games have incorporated the latest in : gaming technology and have been successful, Marathon remains the most : entheusiastically embraced game you have ever done. You want to break into : the greater gaming community and you want to build on your past successes, : but you can't expect the market you hope to sell to to be familiar with : your earlier games. : I believe that in this frame of reference, Bungie chose to use Marathon as a : foundation for the development of Halo, but not as its prequel. They took : what they thought worked well in Marathon - FPS action, science fiction, a : compelling story, AI's and battleroids, and simplified things to make it : easier for the masses to get into gameplay. In many ways the Pfhor and : their client races became the Covenent and instead of them being : enslavers, they became religious fanatics bent on humanity's destruction. : Since modern gamers had too short an attention span to be expected to read : a bunch of backstory on a series of terminals, everything had to be : conveyed through cutscenes. Beyond this, Halo and Marathon completely : diverge. The fact that the Marathon symbol was incorporated into Halo is a : nod to Bungie's past and nothing more. : Don't get me wrong - Halo is a very nice game. It's a lot of fun, but I find : the cutscenes to be an incredible distraction to gameplay and I find the : action to be surprisingly tedious in spots. As I read in a recent review : of Doom 3, much of Halo can be summarized as - enter room, kill all the : monsters inside, enter next room. Marathon has so much more depth, : particularly in the development of its story, that I'll never tire of it. : That's whay I claim that Halo is a dumbed-down version of Marathon. I : understand why Bungie made it this way, but it's hard to extol its virtues : when we know how much better it could have been. The one thing Halo is not : is a sequel to Marathon, nor was it ever likely meant to be.
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