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To the end of arc, Mr Bananas
Posted By: yakamanDate: 4/16/07 1:54 p.m.

In Response To: mrbananas last theory part 2 (continued) (mrbananas)

First of all - that was great. Really, really great. I cannot imagine how much work it took to put that together. It was an extremely enjoyable read.

Secondly - Bravo. I have been contemplating finalizing where I stand (for my own peace of mind, if nothing else), and it's good to see another story-theorist do it.

Third - As you stated, we are at the place where we can only watch and wait to see how some of the details are wrapped up. Hence, "theory" and not "law". So I'm going to agree with you on some points, and disagree on others. I will not be able to disprove your position (since you did a nice job of referencing evidence) as many of these issues cannot be proven or disproven until H3. If even then... ;)

So without further ado...

- HALOS WIPE OUT MOST EVERYTHING. Although your logic makes sense here (i.e. the GN (Infinite Succor) showing Livestock being infected), I am not WILLING to suspend my disbelief enough to accomodate this track. Partly because the task of restarting all live bigger than mice and smarter than a slug in the entire galaxy, within 100,000 years approaches the infinite. Partly because Earth's historical records do not show such a thing. Yes, your logic shows the Halos must wipe everything large; yes, there is such a thing as artistic license; yes the Forerunner were mighty. Restoring the sentient is at least...manageable (relatively speaking).

- ARK AS A RESEEDING DEVICE, GUIDE TO HALOS. I like this, to a point. I think Regret's actions in H2 suggest that he wanted the "Ark" only for information it could provide (i.e. location of another halo). In his case, I don't think he was seeing the big picture yet. I do believe the ark has DNA archival information for every species in the galaxy, but this information is for "just in case" scenarios. I believe the Shield worlds were supposed to protect the sentient ones (who were in danger from the Halos), but the DNA was saved in the Ark just in case some species were wiped out (didn't make it to the bomb shelters).

- HUMANS AS FORERUNNER. I've gone back and forth, and in the end, I maintain humans are not Forerunner, humans (as reclaimers) are different. Your arguments are elegant and I cannot refute them (because the proof does not exist). This position hinges on whether Halos wipe out everything or just the sentient. Because I won't accept they wipe out everything, I can imagine scenarios in which humanity exists but Forerunner do not.

I absolutely applaud the argument though, and the spirit of it. One of my main conflicts is "if humans are not forerunner, why would forerunner perserve us and not themselves?". In fact, you address almost all of the main conflicts comprehensively. In the end, we break over the targets of Halo. What if the "food" of the Flood consists of memories, imbued with meaning? A non-sentient vector (i.e. a Cow) might be infectable, but how much "food" would it provide? When the infection form was fighting for Keyes' mind and soul in Halo: the Flood, it was like a "memory" vampire or a "meaning" vampire. Perhaps the Flood is a "sentience" parasite. Who knows. But this would allow certain animals to be infected, but not count as food.

If one can accept a level of sentience specifies Halo targets, then one can accept the "just below sentience" argument, in which Humanity and all species of the Covenant are here because we were all on the cusp when the Halos fired. Are nine (9) sentient species in a galaxy many or few? I might say few, suggesting that some event wiped out the majority and the galaxy is only recovering. Maybe we (humanity and the Covenant) are "Lord of the Flies" on a galactic scale. All the grown-ups are asleep, and the kids are running amok.

- ABORIGINAL SUBSPECIES. I believe that this statement (as made by the Sentinal in GoO) may have been literally true. The Latin and English it spoke must have been enabled via ultra-powerful language interpolation software. Otherwise, how can one explain it's English knowledge, when English only evolved over the last 1000 years?

-WHERE I STAND. Like I've said, I cannot refute your fantastic position paper. I enjoyed reading it, and agreed with very many parts. The places I disagree are largely opinion and gut feel. So please do not take my statements as saying that I am right and you are wrong. Here's what I think, in a nutshell:

- Forerunner was a coalition of many species
- Each Forerunner species was given a bomb shelter for preservation
- One of these species (a humanoid from Earth, HOMO SUPREMUS maybe?) was specified to perform galaxy reclaimation after the Flood receded
- The Flood converged, the Halos were activated by a specific HOMO SUPREMUS, accompanied by 343GS
- Something went wrong immediately before firing, something insiduous brought on by Gravemind. That something directly affected the role HOMO SUPREMUS was supposed to play. Maybe other species of the Forerunner made it to their shelters, but Reclaimers did not.
- All sentient beings are snuffed out. The Flood starve.
- Humanity rises. Humanity is nearly identical to HOMO SUPREMUS. But we are an Aboriginal Subspecies.
- No signs of HOMO SUPREMUS are to be found on Earth - reason? Take your pick - they moved to the Earth's core during the Flood war, they originated on Antarctica, their city Atlantis was destroyed, etc, etc, etc.
- The species of the Covenant rise. All of this is random possibility. Billions of planets, trillions of life forms, 9 species rise.
- The wheel turns, and it is 2552.
- The prophets know the Truth, and are betrayers. They aspire to Godhood.
- The Brutes are a tool, a means.
- The Elites are victims.
- We'll strike a balance with Gravemind, and the Elites.
- We'll find the keys to the galaxy within the Ark.
- And maybe we'll wake the Adults up?

This is where I've settled, after all these years (3? Not many compared to some). We'll see, won't we? I don't really care if I'm right or wrong, it's the exercise itself that rewards. :)

In any case, excellent reading, Mr. Bananas. Bravo.

Message Index


mrbananas last theory part 1 (long)mrbananas 4/5/07 2:26 p.m.
     mrbananas last theory part 2 (continued)mrbananas 4/5/07 2:29 p.m.
           BrilliantHikaru-119 4/13/07 3:20 p.m.
                 Re: BrilliantDHalo 4/13/07 3:47 p.m.
                       Re: BrilliantHikaru-119 4/13/07 4:00 p.m.
                             Re: BrilliantDHalo 4/13/07 4:02 p.m.
                             Re: BrilliantCthulhu117 4/13/07 4:02 p.m.
                                   Re: BrilliantHikaru-119 4/13/07 4:04 p.m.
                                         Re: BrilliantDHalo 4/13/07 4:06 p.m.
                                               Ah, yes...Cthulhu117 4/13/07 4:15 p.m.
                                                     Re: Ah, yes...mrbananas 4/13/07 7:40 p.m.
                                                           oh great!ActiveCamoElite 4/13/07 10:42 p.m.
                                                                 Re: oh great!mrbananas 4/14/07 12:58 p.m.
                                                                       the first great jouney! *NM*ActiveCamoElite 4/14/07 3:40 p.m.
           My thoughts exactlyHawaiian Pig 4/13/07 7:14 p.m.
           Re: mrbananas last theory part 2 (continued)maxthehedgie 4/13/07 9:45 p.m.
           Re: mrbananas last theory part 2 (continued)UrsusArctos 4/14/07 8:23 p.m.
                 Re: mrbananas last theory part 2 (continued)mrbananas 4/14/07 11:26 p.m.
                 Re: mrbananas last theory part 2 (continued)reprobate 4/22/07 6:25 a.m.
           Re: mrbananas last theory part 2 (continued)Guscon 4/15/07 10:36 a.m.
           To the end of arc, Mr Bananasyakaman 4/16/07 1:54 p.m.
                 Re: To the end of arc, Mr BananasUrsusArctos 4/22/07 8:03 a.m.
           Re: mrbananas last theory part 2 (continued)Davis Beutler 7/16/07 8:21 a.m.
     Re: mrbananas last theory part 1 (long)Ragashingo 4/5/07 11:09 p.m.
           Re: mrbananas last theory part 1 (long)7isdarker 4/13/07 6:20 p.m.
                 Re: mrbananas last theory part 1 (long)Cthulhu117 4/13/07 7:17 p.m.
     Re: mrbananas last theory part 1 (long)Quantum 4/13/07 8:31 p.m.
           Re: mrbananas last theory part 1 (long)Quantum 4/13/07 8:34 p.m.
     Re: mrbananas last theory part 1 (long)BINARYGOD 5/28/07 7:11 p.m.
     Re: mrbananas last theory part 1 (long)BINARYGOD 5/29/07 12:09 a.m.
           Re: mrbananas last theory part 1 (long)mrbananas 5/29/07 4:02 p.m.
     OH, I get it now.Izzinatah 5/29/07 12:58 a.m.
           Re: OH, I get it now.BINARYGOD 5/29/07 1:25 a.m.
                 Re: OH, I get it now.doober187 5/29/07 5:20 a.m.
     Re: mrbananas last theory part 1 (long)Druff 5/29/07 2:35 p.m.
           Re: mrbananas last theory part 1 (long)Tyler Koharik 7/25/07 10:48 p.m.
     One ProblemPak 6/24/07 11:39 a.m.
           Re: One Problem*-^Ghosts-of-Onyx^-* 6/24/07 9:42 p.m.

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