In Response To: Re: In Amber Clad loadout discussion (OldNick)
: As you may already know, the traditional reasons for warships having large
: crews break down like this:
: More bodies for boarding actions - Marines and
: naval specialists (like MC) might do the offensive boarding, but ship crew
: can certainly help in defence. I've gone back to the age of sail for this
: line of argument, but it seems to apply in the Haloverse.
ah, yes, defense. i bet they teach the "I'M A COWARDLY FOOL!" tactic to everyone coming out of naval academies.
: More human redundancy - you can take casualties and still remain effective.
indeed. but with increased automization, this should be less of a problem (i loves the automization!).
: More bodies for damage control - there are full-time specialists, but
: everbody gets at least basic training in this.
like a submarine, right? since fatalities are (were, anyway) so easy, all the crew needed to be able to do all the jobs.
: The best contemporary analogy for us here is a nuclear submarine. There are
: pressing reasons to keep the crew small - lack of space for bodies and
: stores, need for life-support - yet their crews are quite large, for the
: space available. I think I'm right in saying that submarines are the only
: U.S. Navy warships where the crew outnumber the bunks. Let's take a
: contemporary Ohio-class SSBN: Mass: 16764 tons (surfaced displacement)
: Length: 170.69m
: Beam: 12.8m
: Crew: 15 Officers, 142 enlisted
: Everyone joining a submarine crew is required to study and learn ALL the
: critical plumbing, so that 1) they don't make deadly mistakes, and 2) they
: know enough to use their judgement and initiative in an emergency. I for
: one would be very reluctant to get on board a spaceship that wasn't run
: the same way.
me, too...the last thing i want is some dumbass accidentally venting all our oxygen.
: I'd imagine that damage control organisation would exploit this sort of
: training: there'd be a core of full-time specialists trained to do heavy
: work in suits (firefighting, structural repairs, sealing breaches) and a
: parallel organisation of light damage control teams, headed by
: specialists, covering mainly plumbing, cable-laying and network
: troubleshooting. All crew (and probably some Marines) would qualify to do
: the light team work.
do you think there's a distinction between internal and external damage control? external DC requires extra training in suits with null-g conditions, and is more dangerous (particularly doing repairs mid-battle).
: If I remember correctly, the Pelicans are suspended level with galleries
: which offer at least some access.
yeah, but oddly enough, those galleries themselves don't seem to have any method of access. unless you Shade jump, of course ;)
: Here we're back with the contemporary aircraft-carrier analogy again. To
: start with, anyone moving around in those hangar bays when they're working
: will be a full-time specialist, or under escort by specialists (flight
: crew and passengers both). It's an even more dangerous environment than a
: carrier's flight deck in some ways, because it's so confined, and objects
: are potentially moving in three dimensions, not just two. A spacecraft
: hangar bay of this sort combines most of the worst features of a carrier's
: flight deck AND hangar deck.
good point. just in that intro cutscene there's tanks, jeeps, Pelicans and people, all moving around at once!
: There'll be marshallers to guide manoeuvering craft (like the one with the
: paddles in the PoA cutscene). There'll be fuelling specialists, because
: even if the process is automated up to the hilt, flammable fuels flowing
: through temporary connections in large quantities under pressure need
: constant monitoring and inspection, especially in this busy and dangerous
: environment. There'll be a firefighting/damage control crew, with vehicles
: of some sort, on standy. There'll probably be tugs or tractors so you can
: move craft around without having to start their engines, and crew to drive
: or monitor those - driving a vehicle in this sort of place is a job for
: qualified specialists only. There will be armourers with trolleys full of
: weapons (more tractors), because you don't take chances with propellants
: and explosives in this environment, any more than with fuels.
the fact that only guys in marine armor are in the hangar makes me wonder if either a) they armored up due to the imminent boarding or b) the marines take care of their own craft.
: You may think I'm overplaying the danger aspect, but consider the thrust
: needed to move a Pelican. Even when idling, those engines are blasting out
: high-speed exhaust. If they're running in an air-breathing mode, then
: they're sucking at the other end too. Jet intakes are best avoided. And
: come to think of it, you're going to need ventilation on a heroic scale.
: There's also a bit of a noise problem. I once had the privilege of
: standing 150 yards from four Harriers (AV-8s) hovering over a runway at
: the Farnborough Air Show. They went through a very neat choreographed
: routine - it was deeply impressive. The only problem was the noise.
: Imagine a vacuum cleaner the size of IAC. Now imagine the noise it would
: make. In an echo chamber.
noise is certainly a factor. i've always marvelled at the cutscenes with Pelicans, wherein your marines are casually sitting back, despite the fact that the BACK OF THE VEHICLE IS OPEN. it should be like an open helicoptor, noisier than hell - but with jet engines!
: Let's assume that our descendants have cracked active noise cancellation - I
: don't think their lives would be worth living otherwise. There's also heat
: from those exhausts. At a Farnborough show a few years after the one
: mentioned above, an interesting new Russian V/STOL aircraft embarrassed
: itself by melting a hole in the pavement (I missed that one).
whew. stick with the Hind-D, guys...
: I haven't touched the maintenance side because I see that another poster has
: already stepped in.
: *OT*
: Dude1 - The game I built the carrier for was 'F-18E Superhornet', published
: by those well-known paragons of quality games software, Titus (spits on
: floor). I strongly urge you not to spend good money on this. In any case,
: the carrier, like most other vehicles in the game, was handed off for
: finishing and texturing to my esteemed ex-colleague Alan Massey, who may
: have had to simplify it a bit. E-mail me if you want more detail.
ah, so you spent quite some time agonizing over the space between decks, only to hand the work off and doubtless having the model squashed, squeezed and stretched so that your companion could slap some grey onto it. nice!
--dude1
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