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Re: This.
Posted By: Hyokin <dellaro.webs@gmail.com>Date: 7/23/11 2:06 p.m.

In Response To: Re: This. (General Vagueness)


: That was how I started with Aspiration and Backbone, they're different now,
: and even before I presented them the first time I made changes to the
: placement, spawning, and presence of weapons, vehicles, and health packs.
: That said I actually remembered to save the film from last week of the
: game on Backbone and actually watched it this time. I haven't watched one
: in a while because I thought I might see something like what I wound up
: seeing: people wandering around looking for weapons or enemies or getting
: picked off by them and the Wraith being destroyed in under 10 seconds. It
: seems one of the main problems with both maps is a lack of cover, which is
: problematic on those maps, and another is weapon presence and placement,
: which is something I just don't feel I'm very good at. Right now I'm
: leaning towards shelving them and returning to older projects.

I feel like you are working backwards.

Before you try to make an original map, you should start by working on an existing map and changing SOME of the objects around. Trees of Life was taking it too far. Change three power weapons with three other weapons. How does this change the map? How are players moving around?

Are they still going to those locations?

If you have a Rocket Launcher in place of the Sniper Rifle on Guardian, how does this affect the player flow? Is the rocket too powerful there? Does it have a good sightline to use the weapon? Why did Bungie put a Sniper Rifle there?

After you've begun to grasp the basic functions of spawning, player flow, and weapon placement, then you can begin to section off parts of a map and try using your own concepts. Make sure you place weapons on player paths but only in places where people will expect to find a weapon, not where it will LOOK cool. A game needs to be fun before it's pretty.

Cave-Out suffered because you tried to make a map based around a story and placed weapons in a specific way to look like they were dropped by dying soldiers. That would be cool for a machinima or maybe Campaign, but not for Multiplayer.

A weapon should have a specific role on a map, not just be thrown in as filler.

Once you've got a decent map built inside an existing map(I'd recommend you try forging on Tempest if you want to do something like Backyard but with more objects) then you can begin learning how to make maps in Forge World.

Building a map isn't just about weapon placement, you need to be able to create geometry and understand why some strucutres work and others do not. You need to work out a map in your head and on paper before you start building it.

If it helps, build it in Forge but not to be played on but as a 3D blueprint. Have some friends jump in Forge with you and run around it, listen to what they say about the movement, where they would expect certain weapons to be, and see if they complain about something or get caught up on structures.

Last night we played on Flying Shoe's map and I managed to snag the enemy's Warthog. I started driving down the hill and thought I could drive it behind the "train" structure only to get my Warthog jammed. Trapped, the other team slaughtered me.

Shoe had never had anyone try to drive there before, but I wasn't playing his map trying to break it, I just did. I had seen a path that I thought the Warthog could drive down and was killed because I had a certain idea of how I could move around the map only to be punished because I was wrong.

Players will move around maps in a variety of ways and your job is to meet their expectations and make the map fun for new and returning players.

Okay, that was a lot longer than I intended but I hope you get what I am trying to say...

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Replies:

Forerunner Symbol on CondemnedJoony Joon 7/21/11 10:51 a.m.
     holy crap - good call!Louis Wu 7/21/11 11:43 a.m.
           Re: holy crap - good call!Hyokin 7/21/11 11:47 a.m.
           Re: holy crap - good call!DHalo 7/21/11 11:51 a.m.
                 Re: holy crap - good call!Louis Wu 7/21/11 12:13 p.m.
                       Condemned space station build by Forerunners! *NM*Overdoziz 7/21/11 12:14 p.m.
           Re: holy crap - good call!Joony Joon 7/21/11 12:30 p.m.
                 You get a gold star. *NM*SonofMacPhisto 7/21/11 12:40 p.m.
                       Also a purple heart!Hyokin 7/21/11 1:00 p.m.
           Re: holy crap - good call!Joony Joon 7/21/11 1:51 p.m.
                 Re: holy crap - good call!Louis Wu 7/21/11 1:52 p.m.
                       Gracias. *NM*Joony Joon 7/21/11 3:47 p.m.
     Re: Forerunner Symbol on Condemnedpete_the_duck 7/21/11 6:53 p.m.
           Re: Forerunner Symbol on CondemnedGeneral Vagueness 7/21/11 10:38 p.m.
                 Re: Forerunner Symbol on CondemnedGeneral Vagueness 7/21/11 11:59 p.m.
                       Re: Forerunner Symbol on Condemnedpete_the_duck 7/22/11 6:14 a.m.
                             Re: Forerunner Symbol on CondemnedGeneral Vagueness 7/22/11 10:52 a.m.
                                   Re: Forerunner Symbol on CondemnedHedgemony 7/22/11 11:50 a.m.
                                   It's shit like this Vagueness.Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316) 7/23/11 6:08 a.m.
                                         This.Hyokin 7/23/11 12:03 p.m.
                                               Re: This.General Vagueness 7/23/11 12:13 p.m.
                                                     Re: This.Hyokin 7/23/11 2:06 p.m.
                                                           Re: This.General Vagueness 7/23/11 3:44 p.m.
                                                           actuallynomis78 7/24/11 8:52 a.m.
                                   Re: Forerunner Symbol on Condemnedghost faction 7/24/11 4:21 p.m.
                                         Re: Forerunner Symbol on CondemnedGeneral Vagueness 7/24/11 5:16 p.m.
                                               Re: Forerunner Symbol on CondemnedGeneral Vagueness 7/28/11 10:23 p.m.
                                                     Re: Forerunner Symbol on CondemnedStephen L. (SoundEffect) 7/29/11 5:42 a.m.
                       Re: Forerunner Symbol on CondemnedLouis Wu 7/22/11 12:01 p.m.
                             Re: Forerunner Symbol on Condemnedpete_the_duck 7/22/11 1:13 p.m.
                                   Re: Forerunner Symbol on CondemnedZackDark 7/22/11 8:26 p.m.
                             Re: Forerunner Symbol on CondemnedStephen L. (SoundEffect) 7/22/11 2:13 p.m.
                             Re: Forerunner Symbol on CondemnedRagashingo 7/24/11 12:47 p.m.
                 Re: Forerunner Symbol on CondemnedJoony Joon 7/22/11 7:02 a.m.
                 Great find, Vagueness!NsU Soldier 7/23/11 10:57 p.m.
                       Re: Great find, Vagueness!kanbo 7/24/11 1:49 a.m.
                       Re: Great find, Vagueness!General Vagueness 7/24/11 9:00 a.m.
                             I would love a corner shot of it. :)NsU Soldier 7/24/11 2:41 p.m.
                                   Re: I would love a corner shot of it. :)General Vagueness 7/24/11 3:23 p.m.



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