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On Campaign spaces for Multiplayer
Posted By: Harmanimus	Date: 2/16/10 11:49 p.m.
This is the text from a post I made on B.net, and I figured that you guys - what with all the scrutinizing - might have a take on it. I think I saw some discussion of it here, but this is my take on the whole "All Multiplayer Maps are being pulled straight out of Campaign" talk. So, yeah. It's kinda tl;dr, but here is the text with some added spacing: ::: It's interesting, to me, how quickly these things go. Like fire on dry brush. Just gets blown all around. A lot of people have been jumping to conclusions on what they assume will occur with the new information surfacing. There are reasonable concerns, but most of them aren't what people are focusing on. And to speak on the history of Bungie's MP and imply that somehow this will all go wrong? Seems rather silly to me. We know so little about the campaign, and even less about how they're building multiplayer. If you look at the most recent release with ODST, a lot of people who I see complaining about it are the same people I see focusing on saying that Bungie just needs to make MP games and forsake campaign - which is completely counter to what Bungie is, in my opinion, best known for. But the way they handled the Firefight maps was an interesting thing to look at. I have three examples that I think reflect well that Bungie isn't going astray. First example: Data Hive. This is a map that was, in fact, in the Campaign. The funny thing about it is that in Campaign, you don't engage a single enemy in the space that the Firefight map takes place in. In fact, with just following the AI, you don't even see the map. Just a little slice that suited the Campaign at that time. Of all the firefight maps, Data Hive was probably my favorite. Because it had a base that felt separate, but connected. There were multiple, something like 10, ways out of it into the main combat arena. It had a fair share of enemy spawns, some effective lines of sight that provided good cover as well as early detection. You could hold your position on the ground, utilize the cover of columns and crates to funnel the enemies to you, or you could hop up to the catwalks above and sacrifice some of that cover for a wider number of pathways. It felt fresh to me, even though I had just passed through it in the campaign. And beyond that, it wouldn't be a challenge at all to place a base at either end and convert it into a map that plays somewhere between Midship and The Pit. Long sight lines and pathways through a relatively open area, with the benefit of a 'back way' and sectioned symmetry. It isn't perfect, but the idea is there. Second: Last Exit The campaign used roughly 1/3 of this map, the center, and it was location of the final battle in ODST. There was a lot of area left unaccessed in the campaign, leading to a greater sense of variety when I loaded it up in firefight. With more avenues to be attacked, and a base that gave you both a well covered funnel and direct access to a vantage point of the whole map. It worked well, giving you lop sided rushes of Covenant while playing Firefight, but never really making me feel pinned to only using one area. Obviously you gravitate to the base, and I tended to keep out of the courtyard, but it kept my tactics varied by requiring me to either skirt around at the base or risk a more open engagement. Now, to counter the 'U' shape that firefight has, if you look at the space from a competitive MP standpoint, it could almost be a spiritual successor to Colossus. You have a 'W' or 'M' shaped map (depending on your perspective) with a base at each end that can see and engage each other. There is a central area that you can hop down to that could easily house a power up or power weapon and, unlike Colossus, provide a little more cover with the central structure. The Firefight Base allows for a similar point of focus that Colossus' Sniper Spawn possessed. As it gives you a solid vantage point of the whole map while having multiple points of entry from both sides. It isn't perfect for cover in all cases on either side, but once again, there is a space that shows a lot of potential in use for Campaign, Firefight, and potentially MP. Third, and last: Lost Platoon Now this map I see as being ODST's Blood Gulch. Not truthfully a remake like Coagulation, not even as close to a spiritual successor as Valhalla, but it fills a similar role. Now, in campaign, it's an area we enter, support marines in, and engage some heavy armor to move forward in the level. How you go about that is up to you. Light weapons and getting close? Heavy weapons and sniping? How about a vehicle? I think it's a prime example of Halo's sandbox at it's best - you can tackle the challenge however you see fit with the option of your choice. Come firefight and the central structure is your primary point of orbit. You might venture off to get a better vantage point on a target, or simply to divide up where your team is so you don't all get swarmed at once. Enemies come in vehicles and from all sides, and you have just as many options for engagement as they do, with fair cover, a large area with very long sight lines, and enough alternate routes you can sneak about unnoticed if you like - and are good enough at it - to get the drop. Now, if you think about it as a MP map, it would have its faults, but it also shows a great deal of potential. Place one base at the top of the ramp where you first enter in Campaign, and place to opposed base on the plateau the is before you exit. Block both exits off with a door or a fence, and now you have a box canyon pulled from Campaign. You have a base on either side. You have multiple side routes to take on foot, more direct routes for vehicles, and the added benefit of a large structure in the center of the map that breaks the sight lines and allows foot travel through the center of the map. Blood Gulch, and more importantly Coagulation, suffered from sniper dominance and spawn camping issues. Valhalla moved to alleviate some of that with the large hill in the center but lost a lot of the usefulness of traveling at the edges of the map. So, take lost platoon, motivate exploration with weapon and power up placements, and you're on your way to a large, vehicle and infantry friendly map. Opportunities for sniping, whether from a base, from the map sides, or the central structure to allow for sniper dominance, but limiting overall sight line options for an individual sniper. Vehicles have a large 'O' to compete in with smaller branches due to rocks and the smaller structures. and the map, overall, has a defined 'S' curve to it, keeping it from being too big for all those close quarters fans to find combat. It isn't perfect, none of these examples are, but think about it for a minute, from Bungie's perspective. If they can make a Great Multiplayer map, link it together inside the campaign, as well as retool the space for firefight - the combination of which allows them more time to produce more content for all three combined - doesn't that sound mighty tasty? A lot of people are saying that the MP maps are gonna be cut out of campaign, straight copied. But I think that's a misunderstanding. I'd be more willing to wager that most are being built as MP maps first, integrated into campaign, and retooled for Firefight. At the same time I'm sure that if they're making them threefold (yes, it is an assumption that Firefight is in) that some maps that started out being built for Firefight would then be added onto and tweaked to better accommodate MP, as well as only having necessary parts be actively used in campaign. Both Firefight and MP maps have similar needs, and I'm sure if you took a look at most of the maps from CE, 2, and 3 you could figure out a way to make them work for Firefight. Just as the maps from ODST could work for MP. You just have to remember that in this case they'd be making a square peg for a square hole. Campaign spaces don't require the constant flow of combat toward choke points and weapon spawns as MP does, or the flow of enemies that Firefight does. But that doesn't mean that the space can't be there, even if only a part is necessary, and the rest is just empty (or full) exploration, because campaign still needs to have that level of interest to drive you forward. It just happens that sometimes part of a MP map would work perfect in for a choke point or combat space for Campaign. I'm not counting any chickens yet, but I'll be honest, I have a lot more positive to think about in regard to this than negative. From a gameplay perspective, in particular. It's already pretty tl;dr, so I won't go into the Aesthetic repercussions or counter-conclusions. At least not yet. ::: Or maybe I'm just over thinking sliver of MP they've mentioned thus far.

Message Index

On Campaign spaces for Multiplayer	Harmanimus	2/16/10 11:49 p.m.
Re: On Campaign spaces for Multiplayer	DEEP NNN	2/17/10 5:58 a.m.
Re: On Campaign spaces for Multiplayer	newguy2445	2/17/10 7:12 a.m.
Re: On Campaign spaces for Multiplayer	Harmanimus	2/17/10 12:52 p.m.
Re: On Campaign spaces for Multiplayer	Ben Roth	2/17/10 11:37 p.m.
Re: On Campaign spaces for Multiplayer	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	2/18/10 7:05 a.m.
Re: On Campaign spaces for Multiplayer	kidtsunami	2/18/10 8:24 a.m.