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Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)
Posted By: Jillybean <jillybean@bungie.org>	Date: 1/18/10 12:21 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly) (scarab) Do you know I saw that article at the airport, didn't get a chance to read it, thanks for reminding me. : though its more speculation than analysis. The 4 lobed orifice doesn't : necessitate 4 tubes behind it. And, if they had pharyngeal jaws inside : their mouth then the 4 tubes would be somewhere further back from the : entrance. I think it's a reasonable assumption though. [snip] : I think that they have diaphragms simply because of the shape of their upper : body. It looks like they have a rib cage but they could have a hepatic : piston or use gular (throat) pumping. We wouldn't know just by observation : of the Elite models in the game. A diaphragm is an ingenious way of breathing, freeing up the rib cage of anything other than supporting musculature so again I think this is a fair assumption. : Birds have a single thorax/chest and abdominal cavity. Its called the : thoracoabdominal cavity. It acts, mechanically, as a single unit and : movement of air to/from sacs within it ventilate the, fixed volume, lungs. : Its movement of the bird's large sternum keel and ribs that do most of the : ventilating though movements of the pelvic girdle bones and tail are : implicated in ventilation during brooding and singing. But those sets of : bones are two ends of a single cavity so pumping either end would do the : job. : Elites don't have the large sternum and their thorax looks distinct from the : abdomen. There is a clear break, a change of shape between tummy area and : chest area. So they probably don't ventilate much like birds. Ventilation : just means: how they move the air through the system. It does not refer to : gas exchange (how O2 and CO2 cross the air/blood barrier). : The idea being that multiple hearts are better than one. : Fish have multiple hearts but that's because their main heart sucks. ;-) : Or, more correctly, its the layout of their circulatory system that sucks. : The heart, gills, and body are in series. High pressure blood from the : heart passes through the gills and can lose ~30% to 50% (or more??) of its : pressure before it even starts to travel through the body tissues. but : I'll get back to that in another post. : Hearts, lungs, and livers seem to be close together in most animals. Often : the entire output from the heart passes through the lungs. It has to if : the animal is active. It makes sense to have at least those two organs : close together. : But in a high-gee situation it would also make sense to have a heart low down : in the body to pump blood back up against gravity. There could be one : where the femoral veins join. That may be what the authors are thinking : of. (1 heart close to lungs, one heart lower down, or maybe they are just : thinking of Gallifreyans) Heh, I wondered that too actually. : But I suspect that Elites would do just fine with very tight skin. Look at : Giraffes, the skin on their legs is like tight neoprene, its that thick. : It acts like a flight suit and if it works for an animal as tall as a : Giraffe in 1 G then it should work for an Elite in 2 or 3 G situations. : And if we are going to put hearts low then go the whole hog: have tight skin, : put most of the leg muscles in the thigh, run tendons to operate the lower : leg, and place mechanically operated hearts in the hooves to pump back : blood or lymph fluid. The action of walking or running propels the fluid : back up. My only issue with having lots of tendons in the lower leg is that their feet appear to have some muscle structure otherwise why would they need boots? Unless it's a fashion thing. It would be weird to have a gap between so much muscle mass if there is muscle in the thighs and then the feet with little inbetween. However, if their feet really are hooves with no 'moving parts' inside then this makes sense too. [snip] : They would have exactly the same breath cycle as us. They would just use the : air more efficiently. And that's the really important part, since we're pretty shit at breathing actually. They'd have a huge advantage over us. : The characters in Halo appear to breathe by pulsing their entire body, Humans : included so the game is no help there.

Message Index

Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	scarab	1/16/10 11:57 a.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/16/10 12:19 p.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	scarab	1/16/10 1:57 p.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	Jillybean	1/18/10 12:21 p.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	scarab	1/18/10 3:14 p.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	Jillybean	1/18/10 5:04 p.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	Wildcard Tim	1/19/10 10:15 a.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	Azo 'Galvat	1/19/10 10:56 a.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	scarab	1/19/10 12:56 p.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	Mercury	1/19/10 3:40 p.m.
Images	iMonkey777	1/16/10 12:41 p.m.
Re: Images	scarab	1/16/10 3:20 p.m.
Threads like this are why I love this site.	SPARTAN-034	1/16/10 1:58 p.m.
Re: Threads like this are why I love this site.	Sl'askia	1/16/10 2:28 p.m.
Re: Threads like this are why I love this site.	scarab	1/16/10 2:38 p.m.
Re: Threads like this are why I love this site.	SPARTAN-034	1/16/10 2:44 p.m.
have you eaten recently? *NM*	scarab	1/16/10 3:21 p.m.
I...I don't...	SPARTAN-034	1/16/10 3:31 p.m.
Re: I...I don't...	arbitersaids	1/16/10 6:11 p.m.
The best part about ducks?	Jillybean	1/18/10 12:24 p.m.
Re: The best part about ducks?	scarab	1/18/10 3:02 p.m.
Re: The best part about ducks?	Mercury	1/18/10 3:13 p.m.
Re: The best part about ducks?	scarab	1/18/10 3:19 p.m.
Re: The best part about ducks?	BlueNinja	1/18/10 4:12 p.m.
Re: The best part about ducks?	Jillybean	1/18/10 4:24 p.m.
0_0 WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT!?!	rolandk73	1/18/10 9:09 p.m.
Re: 0_0 WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT!?!	SonofMacPhisto	1/18/10 11:35 p.m.
Re: The best part about ducks?	pete_the_duck	1/18/10 7:45 p.m.
HBO: We know duck penis	bluerunner	1/19/10 9:05 a.m.
Re: Threads like this are why I love this site.	iMonkey777	1/16/10 2:48 p.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	DEEP NNN	1/16/10 3:24 p.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	scarab	1/16/10 6:53 p.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	DEEP NNN	1/16/10 8:36 p.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	Jillybean	1/18/10 12:25 p.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	SPARTAN-034	1/16/10 10:20 p.m.
Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly)	scarab	1/17/10 5:07 a.m.
I haven't spoken with them about this...	stan	1/17/10 2:53 p.m.
Re: I haven't spoken with them about this...	Jillybean	1/18/10 12:27 p.m.
Where do babies come from?	scarab	1/19/10 1:29 p.m.
Re: Where do babies come from?	Aglor	1/19/10 3:09 p.m.
Re: Where do babies come from?	Jillybean	1/19/10 3:11 p.m.
My response to this whole thread	NartFOpc	1/19/10 6:00 p.m.
*Shudders, reaches for vomit bag* *NM*	J23	1/20/10 8:57 p.m.