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| Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly) | |
| Posted By: scarab | Date: 1/16/10 1:57 p.m. |
In Response To: Re: Alligator and Elite lungs (for Jilly) (Stephen L. (SoundEffect)) : That sounds like a really nice analysis. I followed most of it I think. :) Thanks :-) though its more speculation than analysis. The 4 lobed orifice doesn't necessitate 4 tubes behind it. And, if they had pharyngeal jaws inside their mouth then the 4 tubes would be somewhere further back from the entrance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharyngeal_jaws http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v449/n7158/full/nature06062.html for videos see: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v449/n7158/suppinfo/nature06062.html probably too technical (but these fish eat shelled mollusks with jaws inside their mouths!) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1560081/ No good images though, just text I think that they have diaphragms simply because of the shape of their upper body. It looks like they have a rib cage but they could have a hepatic piston or use gular (throat) pumping. We wouldn't know just by observation of the Elite models in the game. Birds have a single thorax/chest and abdominal cavity. Its called the thoracoabdominal cavity. It acts, mechanically, as a single unit and movement of air to/from sacs within it ventilate the, fixed volume, lungs. Its movement of the bird's large sternum keel and ribs that do most of the ventilating though movements of the pelvic girdle bones and tail are implicated in ventilation during brooding and singing. But those sets of bones are two ends of a single cavity so pumping either end would do the job. Elites don't have the large sternum and their thorax looks distinct from the abdomen. There is a clear break, a change of shape between tummy area and chest area. So they probably don't ventilate much like birds. Ventilation just means: how they move the air through the system. It does not refer to gas exchange (how O2 and CO2 cross the air/blood barrier). : The Elites have a 'double heart', make of that what you will. It's been
The idea being that multiple hearts are better than one. Fish have multiple hearts but that's because their main heart sucks. ;-) Or, more correctly, its the layout of their circulatory system that sucks. The heart, gills, and body are in series. High pressure blood from the heart passes through the gills and can lose ~30% to 50% (or more??) of its pressure before it even starts to travel through the body tissues. but I'll get back to that in another post. Hearts, lungs, and livers seem to be close together in most animals. Often the entire output from the heart passes through the lungs. It has to if the animal is active. It makes sense to have at least those two organs close together. But in a high-gee situation it would also make sense to have a heart low down in the body to pump blood back up against gravity. There could be one where the femoral veins join. That may be what the authors are thinking of. (1 heart close to lungs, one heart lower down, or maybe they are just thinking of Gallifreyans) But I suspect that Elites would do just fine with very tight skin. Look at Giraffes, the skin on their legs is like tight neoprene, its that thick. It acts like a flight suit and if it works for an animal as tall as a Giraffe in 1 G then it should work for an Elite in 2 or 3 G situations. And if we are going to put hearts low then go the whole hog: have tight skin, put most of the leg muscles in the thigh, run tendons to operate the lower leg, and place mechanically operated hearts in the hooves to pump back blood or lymph fluid. The action of walking or running propels the fluid back up. But note: if most of the leg muscle is in the thigh then blood doesn't have as far to return. Human legs are over heavy in the lower leg. Its a legacy from our grasping toes days. This makes us vulnerable in high-gee situations. Brutes have heavy lower legs, Jackals and Elites do not. Get 'Inside Nature's Giants' or check it out on you-tube if you can. It was a short series made by Channel 4 in the UK. it shows autopsies of: a Whale, an Elephant, a Giraffe, and a croc. Its well worth seeing. My favorites were the croc and the Giraffe. : As well, I wonder if you might get some visual reference from the Elite from
I've seen it but I could never make anything out. Someone on this forum had images of the Arbiter naked; he had a modded xbox. He said that he had a pic of the Arbiter's rectum but I didn't want to ask to see it in case people thought that I was odd. :-) Was it the real thing or just Tartarus trying to burn him one with that branding stick? : As far as breathing goes, we know their inhalation/exhalation routine is
They would have exactly the same breath cycle as us. They would just use the air more efficiently. The characters in Halo appear to breathe by pulsing their entire body, Humans included so the game is no help there.
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