Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one


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Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one

Posted By: Forrest of B.org Date: 7/12/04 1:45 p.m.
In Response To: Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one (Cheerful)

: Has anyone here heard of M Theory? I'm far from an expert, but M Theory
: essentially argues that every moment of time, as well as every
: possibility, is a self-contained universe.
: Look at it this way. Lets say you're tossing a baseball in your hand, letting
: it rise up and then catching it as it falls. The object is suspended in
: air at this moment, the ball a hair's breadth away from landing in your
: outstretched hand. This moment is a universe. From here however, we have
: several possibilities. For one, you may catch the ball. The moment of
: catching the ball is a universe unto itself. However you might also drop
: the ball. This possibility ALSO exists simultaneously as its own universe.
: Millions of other tiny variations would also create self-contained
: realities: where the ball lands on your hand, or if you drop it how and
: where it falls, where it rolls after it falls etc. Each one of these
: parallel possibilities would simultaneously exist; from any of these a
: number of other possibilities also arise.
: Time would be more or less meaningless here, as every possibility for every
: event exists at once.
: Sorry if that explanation was a bit confusing; I'm not really a physics
: expert so I'm explaining this off of half-understood documentaries (the
: Elegant Universe, to be specific). Anyway M Theory seems pretty
: Marathon-esque.
That is not a concept specific to M Theory, that is the general Multiple-Worlds interpretation of quantum wave collapse that has been around for ages. I'm not sure exactly what M Theory is, as no one had adequately explained it to me (it sounds from what I've heard like just a particular visualization model for the multiple worlds interpretation).
In quantum physics, everything is considered to be a probability wave "until observed". (There are some philosophical questions I won't go into about what exactly constitutes "observation" and why is it so special). For example, an unobserved particle with a halflife of X minutes will be simultaneously decayed and not (or neither, if you like) after that X minutes has passed. Now, some people would add "until it is observed to that sentance", which implies the assumption that when you look at it, the waveform collapses and it becomes a particle in some state (decayed or not), assuming that only one probability can ACTUALLY happen. In the multiple worlds interpretation, which is most prominant nowadays, it is STILL both decayed and not even after you've looked at it; the only difference is, you have now determined which universe you (the observer, whatever that means) exist in: the one where it decayed or the one where it didn't. Whichever it is, there is another universe, with another you, getting the opposite result. Same is true for every instant and every observer.
When we discuss multiple "timelines" in a time travel context, we are neccesarily assuming a multiple-worlds interpretation, but it must be understood that each "timeline" is a fuzzy concept. Say you have a forking path in the woods, representing time and branchign timelines. If you go down one branch, you will wind up wrapping around to the fork again (like time travel); should you take the same branch again, your *exact* motion through space will not be the same, though you are still on the "same path". You could loop around all you like and take a thousand similar, but nonidential "paths" in space, along the same "path" in the woods. Or you could take a different branch at the fork, or walk off the path entirely...

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: That is not a concept specific to M Theory, that is the general : Multiple-Worlds interpretation of quantum wave collapse that has been : around for ages. I'm not sure exactly what M Theory is, as no one had : adequately explained it to me (it sounds from what I've heard like just a : particular visualization model for the multiple worlds interpretation). : In quantum physics, everything is considered to be a probability wave : "until observed". (There are some philosophical questions I : won't go into about what exactly constitutes "observation" and : why is it so special). For example, an unobserved particle with a halflife : of X minutes will be simultaneously decayed and not (or neither, if you : like) after that X minutes has passed. Now, some people would add : "until it is observed to that sentance", which implies the : assumption that when you look at it, the waveform collapses and it becomes : a particle in some state (decayed or not), assuming that only one : probability can ACTUALLY happen. In the multiple worlds interpretation, : which is most prominant nowadays, it is STILL both decayed and not even : after you've looked at it; the only difference is, you have now determined : which universe you (the observer, whatever that means) exist in: the one : where it decayed or the one where it didn't. Whichever it is, there is : another universe, with another you, getting the opposite result. Same is : true for every instant and every observer. : When we discuss multiple "timelines" in a time travel context, we : are neccesarily assuming a multiple-worlds interpretation, but it must be : understood that each "timeline" is a fuzzy concept. Say you have : a forking path in the woods, representing time and branchign timelines. If : you go down one branch, you will wind up wrapping around to the fork again : (like time travel); should you take the same branch again, your *exact* : motion through space will not be the same, though you are still on the : "same path". You could loop around all you like and take a : thousand similar, but nonidential "paths" in space, along the : same "path" in the woods. Or you could take a different branch : at the fork, or walk off the path entirely...

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How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Ernie	7/10/04 12:56 a.m.
Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Bob-B-Q	7/10/04 2:49 a.m.
Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Steve Levinson	7/10/04 6:18 a.m.
Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Forrest of B.org	7/10/04 7:42 a.m.
Nice commentary, Forrest NM	Steve Levinson	7/10/04 8:07 a.m.
Thank you NM	Forrest of B.org	7/10/04 8:43 a.m.
the "True" timeline removing possibilities...?	Ernie	7/10/04 8:12 p.m.
Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Me_43	7/10/04 6:51 p.m.
Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Steve Levinson	7/10/04 8:10 p.m.
Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Forrest of B.org	7/10/04 10:48 p.m.
Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Me_43	7/11/04 11:49 a.m.
Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Cheerful	7/12/04 1:29 p.m.
Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Forrest of B.org	7/12/04 1:45 p.m.
Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Yossarian	7/12/04 2:10 p.m.
Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Forrest of B.org	7/12/04 2:20 p.m.
Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Steve Levinson	7/12/04 1:58 p.m.
Re: How the Minf timeline "fixes" the M2 one	Elliott	7/12/04 1:40 p.m.



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	Message: : That is not a concept specific to M Theory, that is the general : Multiple-Worlds interpretation of quantum wave collapse that has been : around for ages. I'm not sure exactly what M Theory is, as no one had : adequately explained it to me (it sounds from what I've heard like just a : particular visualization model for the multiple worlds interpretation). : In quantum physics, everything is considered to be a probability wave : "until observed". (There are some philosophical questions I : won't go into about what exactly constitutes "observation" and : why is it so special). For example, an unobserved particle with a halflife : of X minutes will be simultaneously decayed and not (or neither, if you : like) after that X minutes has passed. Now, some people would add : "until it is observed to that sentance", which implies the : assumption that when you look at it, the waveform collapses and it becomes : a particle in some state (decayed or not), assuming that only one : probability can ACTUALLY happen. In the multiple worlds interpretation, : which is most prominant nowadays, it is STILL both decayed and not even : after you've looked at it; the only difference is, you have now determined : which universe you (the observer, whatever that means) exist in: the one : where it decayed or the one where it didn't. Whichever it is, there is : another universe, with another you, getting the opposite result. Same is : true for every instant and every observer. : When we discuss multiple "timelines" in a time travel context, we : are neccesarily assuming a multiple-worlds interpretation, but it must be : understood that each "timeline" is a fuzzy concept. Say you have : a forking path in the woods, representing time and branchign timelines. If : you go down one branch, you will wind up wrapping around to the fork again : (like time travel); should you take the same branch again, your exact : motion through space will not be the same, though you are still on the : "same path". You could loop around all you like and take a : thousand similar, but nonidential "paths" in space, along the : same "path" in the woods. Or you could take a different branch : at the fork, or walk off the path entirely...
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