Posts on Current Forum | Archived Posts
|
|
|
||
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
| Frequently Asked Forum Questions | |
|||
|
||||
|
|
|||
| ||||
| ||||
| ||||
| Search Older Posts on This Forum: Posts on Current Forum | Archived Posts | ||||
| ||||
| ||||
| ||||
| Re: Caste Off | |
| Posted By: Narcogen <narcogen@rampancy.net> | Date: 3/6/06 11:49 p.m. |
In Response To: Re: Caste Off (Peptuck) : And that matters why? When analyzing a fictional work, it's usually the only thing that actually matters, because everything else flows from that. Unless you believe that the Haloverse actually exists and Bungie is somehow channeling into it. Which is a charming idea, but is just another fiction in and of itself. : Yes, it is a fictional construct, but that doesn't mean that the characters
It means that when they act in ways that is not completely consistent with that construct as presented, that the motives lie outside it, and not within it-- with Bungie as game developers, not with Brutes as a species. : I beg to differ; Covenant society was established prior to Halo 2, and
All Elites
There are different potential explanations of that, all of which are more logical than the complete absence of shield use by any brute anywhere in the game except Tartarus. Swords are rare-- but there isn't only one Elite that has one. FRGs are rare, but there isn't only one grunt with it. Camo is used by Grunts and Elites, but not Brutes or Jackals. But it's not as if there's only one camo unit in the game. In short, I think the burden of proof for justifying an instance that is not merely rare, but unique, is higher, and that the examples of the hierarchical nature of Covenant society do not adequately explain in this particular case. If Tartarus' shield was stronger than other Brutes-- yes, it would be adequately justified. The reason they don't have shields is gameplay balance-- with their improved speed and toughness, Brutes with shields would be too hard; plus, it visually and culturally distinguishes them from Elites. Perhaps most believe that use of a shield is cowardly and effeminate; we don't know. But such speculation : While Tartarus carrying a unique weapon works for a boss battle, it also has
Covenant primitive society, in this case, exists this way to justify the boss battle-- not the other way around, that is my point. Covenant society does not exist outside Bungie's fiction. They didn't discover it, they made it up. I'm pointing out areas where I think that gameplay elements like weapons and their use did not evolve organically from the backstory, but were shoehorned backwards into the story to fit gameplay requirements; I think the Tartarus battle is not only clearly an example of this, but it is the best example of it in the game. Not so much that he has the hammer and no one else does, but that his shield (regardless of its source) as a purely defensive mechanism used by several other ranks of other Covenant species, is needlessly unique to him in a way that is consistent with the behavior of a military leader of any competence whatsoever, regardless of-- fictional-- cultural restrictions. By looking for in-game motivations for such inconsistencies, you're just doing Bungie's work for them. Let them do it, they know how-- even if they aren't perfect. (Ahem, lost network packets) :) : Yes, I am, mainly because it makes sense in the context of the Covenant's
I'm not arguing that he should get a unique weapon. However, the precise nature of that weapon-- and the complete lack of the use of related technology by any other Brutes-- stretches the suspension of disbelief beyond the breaking point for me. Just a few points: Tartarus' weapon is melee-only. He carries no projectile weapon. When you're on one of the rotating platforms, or he is stuck on the geometry, he cannot kill you. This limitation makes sense within the context of the boss battle, where it is YOUR goal to kill HIM, but the game doesn't really want to kill you-- it just wants to make your task extremely difficult. This limitation on Tartarus' part is so outlandishly unbelievable that the only reasonable explanation is that Tartarus' use of this weapon fits the gameplay Bungie wanted to have for that boss battle. To the extent that one can cherry-pick elements of Covenant culture to support his use of that particular weapon and its characteristics, it is justifiable-- but this is the putting the cart before the horse. When looking at weapon use by the rest of the Covenant, one can see some patterns and some hierarchies, that is true. However, to say that these justify this particular absence of shields on rank and file Brutes, and Tartarus' possession of a super-shield is a stretch. Grunts, true, have no shields. But even Jackals have partial shields, Elites have full body shields. Surely Brutes would rank at least a shield as good as an Elite's. We know they share technology because Brute plasma rifles are just the same as Elite ones, only modified and a different color. In short: the ONLY reason Brutes don't have shields is for the sake of gameplay balance and differentiation of the various species. Again, you can pick and choose facts from Covenant culture as described in the books to justify this, without realizing of course that those facts are inserted there solely for the purpose of justifying this choice. The initial point of bringing up any of this was to explain why I don't like the Tartarus boss battle, which I dislike primarily because of its arbitrariness. The boss battle in Halo 2 that won an award is, not surprisingly, the one that is the least arbitrary and the least boss-like, although it too has things you can nitpick on: the scarab battle. The game's other boss battles have similar flaws, but to my mind they are all less arbitrary than the Tartarus fight. Regret, after all, is offensively just a souped-up hunter in a floating chair. The arbitrary part of that battle is that nothing except a melee hit can deliver a killing blow. One can justify that by saying he has tough shields, and that's consistent and logical. One would expect such a character to have such a shield. There are no other prophets we take on in combat that lack shields, so there's no inconsistency here. The Heretic also has his unique weapon, and this also poses some problems, but of a different nature. This holograms are also unique- we never see any other weapon wielding them. However, this is a weapon that is obviously of a different tactical nature than Tartarus' shield. Unlike a purely defensive measure like a shield, the holograms would not be useful in all situations. If I have a problem with that, it's that these holograms fire real ordnance, which from my understanding of "hologram" really shouldn't be possible... but oh well. Purely as decoys, they would make sense-- using and controlling them would be a special skill not given to everyone. My guess is that the holograms were made deadly for reasons of gameplay challenge-- not because Bungie knows that the Covenant have adapted Forerunner technology for making "solid" holograms that can fire weapons, because that's belaboring the point. I don't think we're going to convince each other and both our positions are fairly well fleshed out, so perhaps we should stop or take the discussion to another channel, as I suspect the general audience has probably gotten about as much out of the exchange as they can reasonably get-- we're only going to repeat ourselves from here on end. | |
|
| Replies: |
The HBO Forum Archive is maintained with WebBBS 4.33. |