Re: Tour of Duty


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Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt

Posted By: PerseusSpartacus Date: 5/28/18 6:07 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt (Martin)

: I played StarCraft II before I, and the original story of II was a real
: exercise in why we don't usually tell non-linear stories. You had way too
: much freedom in choosing the order of missions, which could lead to
: characters missing completely when you finished the game, and they had
: a couple of branching bits where a character died or they did not. It
: made the main thread of the story and character motivations totally
: unconvincing, and didn't exactly do wonders for their canon … but they
: kept at it and made the story even worse. At least the missions tended
: to be fun.
I don't mind the non-linearity, I just think where they took the story was really disappointing. The original StarCraft's story was cool in large part because it didn't fit the simple, easy meme of good-versus-evil; particularly in the sense that the good didn't always win out. In the Terran campaigns you end up helping to create not one, but two authoritarian regimes; in the Zerg campaigns you annihilate huge numbers of people in the name of the swarm; and in the Protoss campaigns you struggle to keep the people of a falling empire alive.
By contrast, the story of StarCraft II is basically just "fate decrees that bad guys are about to come, now let's spend three games setting up the pieces for an epic battle where all the characters you know and love fight together against said bad guys." That's a bit of a let down, honestly.
But yes, at least the missions are fun.
: And I think any further scenarios we attempt to
: ToD are going to involve non-linear stories - the main reason I have not
: played Rubicon or Eternal very far. While impressive, it sucks for the
: completionist in one.
Well, Excalibur seems fairly linear, from what I can tell. Long, but linear. And then there's always Phoenix, which is definitely linear.
: It is a shame we cannot play through this level exactly as intended, but I
: think it is fair to say that grenading up to the BoB is closer to that
: than heading straight for the terminal but not being able to read it. Is
: there some way we can fix it with map editors? Or fix A1?
I agree that the grenade jump up to the Bob is definitely the most true-to-the-original of the two methods.
I think I just figured out what the problem that causes the crash really is: Weland shows that the western-most polygon (polygon 211) in that hallway is a Platform On Trigger that appears not to be linked to anything - so, when you cross that polygon, the game freaks out because it wants to trigger a platform, but doesn't know which one (I think it defaults to a value of -1, but obviously there is no polygon number -1).
Further inspection in JUICE reveals the likely source of this issue - the offending polygon, polygon 211, is set to trigger a platform at polygon 4. Polygon 4 turns out to be a square hole in the center of the floor of that same hallway. So, what I'm guessing happened here is that in the process of turning the old M1 maps into M2 maps, the mapmakers removed a platform and forgot to turn the polygon that triggers it into a Normal polygon.
: Not far to go now. For the next one I've written up a directed path, but it
: can be a tax on the ammo given the vacuum conditions and continually
: respawning Pirates and Galaxans. To be fair on the non-friendly Galaxans
: thing, Durandal gave us pretty much the same story in M2 - for the same
: technical reason?
I'm not sure where in M2 you're referring to, but it would probably be for the same technical reason - M2 also didn't use built-in physics for its maps. That's why you can change the Physics setting in Preferences and have it work for the single-player maps in M2, but you can't do the same thing in Infinity.
Vale,
Perseus

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Tour of Duty - Jaunt PerseusSpartacus 5/27/18 6:15 p.m.

Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt General-RADIX 5/27/18 8:18 p.m.

Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt Martin 5/28/18 1:38 a.m.

Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt PerseusSpartacus 5/28/18 6:07 a.m.

Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt Martin 5/28/18 10:27 a.m.

Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt PerseusSpartacus 5/28/18 10:55 a.m.

Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt Martin 5/28/18 1:13 p.m.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
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Message:
: : I played StarCraft II before I, and the original story of II was a real : I don't mind the non-linearity, I just think where they took the story was : really disappointing. The original StarCraft's story was cool in large : part because it didn't fit the simple, easy meme of good-versus-evil; : particularly in the sense that the good didn't always win out. In the : Terran campaigns you end up helping to create not one, but two : authoritarian regimes; in the Zerg campaigns you annihilate huge numbers : of people in the name of the swarm; and in the Protoss campaigns you : struggle to keep the people of a falling empire alive. : By contrast, the story of StarCraft II is basically just "fate decrees : that bad guys are about to come, now let's spend three games setting up : the pieces for an epic battle where all the characters you know and love : fight together against said bad guys." That's a bit of a let down, : honestly. : But yes, at least the missions are fun. : : And I think any further scenarios we attempt to : Well, Excalibur seems fairly linear, from what I can tell. Long, but linear. : And then there's always Phoenix, which is definitely linear. : : It is a shame we cannot play through this level exactly as intended, but I : I agree that the grenade jump up to the Bob is definitely the most : true-to-the-original of the two methods. : I think I just figured out what the problem that causes the crash really is: : Weland shows that the western-most polygon (polygon 211) in that hallway : is a Platform On Trigger that appears not to be linked to anything - so, : when you cross that polygon, the game freaks out because it wants to : trigger a platform, but doesn't know which one (I think it defaults to a : value of -1, but obviously there is no polygon number -1). : Further inspection in JUICE reveals the likely source of this issue - the : offending polygon, polygon 211, is set to trigger a platform at polygon 4. : Polygon 4 turns out to be a square hole in the center of the floor of that : same hallway. So, what I'm guessing happened here is that in the process : of turning the old M1 maps into M2 maps, the mapmakers removed a platform : and forgot to turn the polygon that triggers it into a Normal polygon. : : Not far to go now. For the next one I've written up a directed path, but : it : I'm not sure where in M2 you're referring to, but it would probably be for : the same technical reason - M2 also didn't use built-in physics for its : maps. That's why you can change the Physics setting in Preferences and : have it work for the single-player maps in M2, but you can't do the same : thing in Infinity. : Vale, : Perseus

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Tour of Duty - Jaunt	PerseusSpartacus	5/27/18 6:15 p.m.
Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt	General-RADIX	5/27/18 8:18 p.m.
Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt	Martin	5/28/18 1:38 a.m.
Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt	PerseusSpartacus	5/28/18 6:07 a.m.
Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt	Martin	5/28/18 10:27 a.m.
Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt	PerseusSpartacus	5/28/18 10:55 a.m.
Re: Tour of Duty - Jaunt	Martin	5/28/18 1:13 p.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : : I played StarCraft II before I, and the original story of II was a real : I don't mind the non-linearity, I just think where they took the story was : really disappointing. The original StarCraft's story was cool in large : part because it didn't fit the simple, easy meme of good-versus-evil; : particularly in the sense that the good didn't always win out. In the : Terran campaigns you end up helping to create not one, but two : authoritarian regimes; in the Zerg campaigns you annihilate huge numbers : of people in the name of the swarm; and in the Protoss campaigns you : struggle to keep the people of a falling empire alive. : By contrast, the story of StarCraft II is basically just "fate decrees : that bad guys are about to come, now let's spend three games setting up : the pieces for an epic battle where all the characters you know and love : fight together against said bad guys." That's a bit of a let down, : honestly. : But yes, at least the missions are fun. : : And I think any further scenarios we attempt to : Well, Excalibur seems fairly linear, from what I can tell. Long, but linear. : And then there's always Phoenix, which is definitely linear. : : It is a shame we cannot play through this level exactly as intended, but I : I agree that the grenade jump up to the Bob is definitely the most : true-to-the-original of the two methods. : I think I just figured out what the problem that causes the crash really is: : Weland shows that the western-most polygon (polygon 211) in that hallway : is a Platform On Trigger that appears not to be linked to anything - so, : when you cross that polygon, the game freaks out because it wants to : trigger a platform, but doesn't know which one (I think it defaults to a : value of -1, but obviously there is no polygon number -1). : Further inspection in JUICE reveals the likely source of this issue - the : offending polygon, polygon 211, is set to trigger a platform at polygon 4. : Polygon 4 turns out to be a square hole in the center of the floor of that : same hallway. So, what I'm guessing happened here is that in the process : of turning the old M1 maps into M2 maps, the mapmakers removed a platform : and forgot to turn the polygon that triggers it into a Normal polygon. : : Not far to go now. For the next one I've written up a directed path, but : it : I'm not sure where in M2 you're referring to, but it would probably be for : the same technical reason - M2 also didn't use built-in physics for its : maps. That's why you can change the Physics setting in Preferences and : have it work for the single-player maps in M2, but you can't do the same : thing in Infinity. : Vale, : Perseus
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