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Re: Halo AI: has it progressed? Where could it go?
Posted By: davidfuchs <davelikesdinos@gmail.com>Date: 11/1/11 8:55 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Halo AI: has it progressed? Where could it go? (scarab)


: I can think of one thing that would help.

: Halo NPCs never look at each other, there is never any eye contact. When a
: Grunt says, "back me up" and another Grunt replies, "I'm
: with you" its never obvious who said what. They are communicating but
: they never make eye contact.

: There is something autistic about the Halo NPCs. I don't think that they ever
: look at each other and they never make eye contact.

: Why does this matter?

: We are the only animals to have whites in our eyes, the only animal to
: provide a huge clue as to what we are looking at. The idea that the eye is
: the window to the soul is not just poetry. We can infer what a person is
: thinking about by simply looking at their eyes. Its very natural to us and
: its not something that we often think about. Its just something that we do
: on an unconscious level.

: Making eye contact is a very human thing but its not totally unique. Chimps
: may also do it, domestic dogs will gaze at a human's face to judge our
: emotional state or to take advantage of our greater height to see if we
: have seen something that they are looking for. But in every case of face
: gazing the reason is social, the entities doing it have a theory of mind
: and are demonstrating that they are thinking entities.

: The fact that Halo NPCs never look at each other undermines any notion that
: they are thinking beings. It happens at an unconscious level, you may
: never have noticed this at a conscious level but rewatch encounters in
: theater mode and just watch the NPCs interact (or fail to interact).

: I suggested this idea before. I remember Shiska saying that taking your eye
: of the enemy is a way to get yourself killed. I agree but nevertheless its
: just something that is hardwired into us, we can not help but do it. Yes a
: glance can get you killed but it is just a glance and we need to look
: around from time to time to keep up our situational awareness. That noise
: behind you: is it an ally or an enemy. If you don't want a friendly fire
: incident then you need to keep track of the changing spacial relationships
: of enemies and allies. (So there are valid reasons for occasional glances,
: especially when you are in cover).

: Which reminds me of something I saw in a Halo 3 clip. A Brute and some Grunts
: were shooting at the Chief. They were standing on a narrow ramp and they
: were all, independently, strafing and firing. The group acted as one. They
: were like a virtuoso pianist's fingers, all synchronized together with no
: missteps. It was impressive but unnatural.

: Look at the size difference between a Grunt and a Brute. The Grunts were
: underfoot, practically dancing between his legs. Weren't they worried
: about being stood on? Wasn't he worried about tripping on a Grunt?

: The original game had some idea of ally NPCs getting in each other's way.
: Have you ever heard an argument between NPCs when one gets in the others
: firing line? I had to break up an, almost, fight between sarge and a
: marine (I defused the situation by getting into a nearby Scorpion). I just
: think that this idea could be extended by showing other ways that NPCs can
: step on each others toes (either literally or figuratively).

: I feel that the games that followed Halo did not follow up on the innovations
: of the first game. They didn't add new mechanisms to show us that we were
: fighting thinking beings. I wonder if the AI team were even thinking in
: those terms.

: Maybe they were just thinking in terms of fighting behaviors of of developing
: ways of allocating tasks to teams to semi-automate encounter design. Those
: are worthy goals but they are technical goals. They are not focused on the
: player's perspective on what is going on in the player's head.

: I think that 343i should be thinking of what is going on in the player's
: head. They should be encouraging the player to form mental models of the
: enemy, to form opinions about what the enemy is thinking and the player
: should be able to gain a tactical or strategic benefit from understanding
: how the enemy thinks.

: How could this be done?

: I'm not sure but I will try to suggest some ideas in a reply.

Your idea about eye-contact makes sense from a realism standpoint I hadn't considered. But frankly in that respect I want more gameplay changes. I want allies so 'smart' that losing them is an active detriment to that player--or enemies that don't just know where you disappeared, but actively try to flush you out.

Forward Unto Dawn



Message Index




Replies:

Halo AI: has it progressed? Where could it go?scarab 11/1/11 7:16 a.m.
     Re: Halo AI: has it progressed? Where could it go?scarab 11/1/11 7:36 a.m.
           Re: Halo AI: has it progressed? Where could it go?davidfuchs 11/1/11 8:55 a.m.
                 Re: Halo AI: has it progressed? Where could it go?scarab 11/1/11 10:07 a.m.
                       I thought of somethingscarab 11/1/11 10:52 a.m.
                             That's actually pretty good!ZackDark 11/1/11 8:14 p.m.
                             Re: I thought of somethingQuirel 11/1/11 11:46 p.m.
                                   Re: I thought of somethingscarab 11/2/11 4:04 a.m.
                       Re: Halo AI: has it progressed? Where could it go?General Vagueness 11/1/11 5:47 p.m.
           Re: Halo AI: has it progressed? Where could it go?Rockslider 11/3/11 5:20 p.m.
     AI: What games currently set the benchmark? *NM*Beckx 11/1/11 11:33 a.m.
           Re: AI: What games currently set the benchmark?scarab 11/1/11 5:57 p.m.
                 Re: AI: What games currently set the benchmark?SonofMacPhisto 11/1/11 7:41 p.m.
                       Re: AI: What games currently set the benchmark?scarab 11/2/11 4:23 a.m.
                             Re: AI: What games currently set the benchmark?SonofMacPhisto 11/2/11 2:01 p.m.
                                   Re: AI: What games currently set the benchmark?scarab 11/3/11 2:40 a.m.
                 Re: AI: What games currently set the benchmark?Beckx 11/2/11 2:24 p.m.
                       Re: AI: What games currently set the benchmark?scarab 11/3/11 2:35 a.m.



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