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Re: OT: XBox 2, 3, and so on
Posted By: TCB	Date: 5/6/01 3:08 p.m.
In Response To: Re: OT: XBox 2, 3, and so on (katokop1) I agree, all consoles are basically PCs, and like you said the GameCube uses an IBM processor based on the PC ones. And I agree that the XBox is designed really different than PCs, it's great the way it's designed for the sole purpose of gaming, the unified ram and no AGP bus bottleneck getting in the way come to mind. What I mean is, the whole XBox is made up of PC parts (they're modified to connect different, but they're PC parts made by the same companies that make them for PCs, like the 10 gig instead of 8 gig HD deal, those are PC harddrives, like the Intell P3, the Nvidia N2A which is better than the GeForce 3 with 65 megs of ram onboard). This way, like you said, they're already familiar with it, which is why I said they'd be able to max out the hardware faster from now on and in the future if they continued using PC based parts based solely on a gaming archetecture, then they could worry about fun and gameplay since they have the best graphics possible already. With a PS2, it's got a really expensive processor and ram, but the design is all wrong, that's why the PS2 costs so much and performs so little for the money (and why Sony loses so much compared to Microsoft on teh hardware). The tiny amount of VRAM was embedded on the chip itself (4 megs), the Emotion Engine was designed even before the DReamcast came out so it was too late when it did come out with 16 megs and 5x texture compression. Since it's on the chip itself, the VRAM can't be upgraded by simply adding more RAM to the circuit boards, it's impossible. So Sony made up this BS about the "new revolutionary design" that requires streaming for the textures, which is really a flaw of the design. The PS2 can't handle textures worth !$#% but it's got good lighting, rain effects, lots of polygons etc. Compare FFX to Shenmue and look at the textures and overall polygons, not much of a difference for polys, and a HUGE difference for the textures huh? Ok, I'm just comparing how designs and parts differ and how the PS2 has the most expensive parts and worst design, and the XBox has cheap but powerful parts in a great gaming design, in which people know how to program the code through and through since it's DirectX 8 which everyone knows how to exploit. The PS2 is very difficult, has lots of flaws and no features, almost every effect has to be done from scratch, so all the time is spent on making the graphics up to par with a Dreamcast game (that's why the games are so short and the gameplay is usually rehashed or unoriginal). The XBox has the most power, what takes 2 years to do on the PS2 can be done in a month or two on the XBox. That's how good the XBox design and power is, with fairly cheap parts. The parts aren't bad either, they're great because they've been around so long, and the yields of wafers and stuff of the chips makes them cheap (plus there's so many manufacturers that MS got the P3s almost free from Intell for the free advertising). The Nvidia is where all the graphics come in, it's a sole gaming chip, the best anywhere, and the Intell 733mhz is just for AI and stuff, that's a lot of power for AI. : IF Xbox 2/3/... were to use an architecture which used the same bytecode : (i.e., the continued to use x86), it would be beyond easy to maintain this : kind of backward compatability. : However, the real reason I chimed in here is to point out -- yet again (I : feel like I have to say this every 3 seconds, since no one gets it) -- : that the xbox is architecturally very different from a PC. It uses : PC-derrived hardware, but so, to a certain extent, does the Game Cube, : insofar as both use CPUs based on the same instruction sets as major PC : platforms. However, not only are the graphics chip and system architecture : *not* at all like those in any PC (the SGI VW320/540 series workstations : for 1999 were the most similar in the PC world, in most respects, based on : a unified memory architecture where the -graphics chip- was make the : center of the system by merging it with the central i/o paths/logic), with : the only relationship being the graphics core's architectural foundations : in the NV2x base design. What no one seems to realize is that the CPU : isn't even anything like an off-the-shelf PIII. It is a P6 core (which : even the PPro was, but who would claim the PPro and the PIII were the : 'same chip'?!?), and placing it even closer to the PIII, it does have : MMX/SSE. However, it has a TOTALLY different FSB (which is a very : significant aspect of the CPU, from an architectural standpoint), and much : more cache, and I believe even has a different cache configuration (which : is a HUGE difference). : As a whole, the xbox is derived from PC hardware architectures because they : are the most well understood and widespread -- and so have the largest : selection of, and best, development tools, which are the most familiar to : the largest number of existing developers. But does anyone claim the Game : Cube is an iMac or some bullshit, because it uses a PowerPC 750 derivative : for its CPU, and a future ATI chipset architecture for its graphics, which : will be rolled into the ATI retail market at some point? No. In both : respects -- the cpu and the graphics -- it is in a position identical to : the xbox, but because the xbox has the microsoft and intel (and nvidia) : names on it, everyone says it's just a PC. : Sorry, ;)

Message Index

OT: XBox 2, 3, and so on	TCB	5/4/01 8:47 p.m.
Re: OT: XBox 2, 3, and so on	katokop1	5/6/01 5:32 a.m.
Re: OT: XBox 2, 3, and so on	TCB	5/6/01 3:08 p.m.
Re: OT: XBox 2, 3, and so on	TCB	5/6/01 5:57 p.m.
thank common sense.......	griffon	5/6/01 3:50 p.m.
Re: OT: XBox 2, 3, and so on	Cunbelin Soffish Loremaster	5/7/01 12:42 p.m.