Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions


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Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions

Posted By: rampancy Date: 3/11/08 5:31 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions (Forrest of B.org)

: [runs away through a convenient plot hole]
Well, it makes sense to me - otherwise, how could there be PiD monsters in the Sphere without the Wr'kncacntr creating them? If the Wr'kncacntr are really just malevolent energy beings á la Star Trek, then they could have easily passed into the Sphere as the Jjaro were retreating into it.
What I don't get though is how you said that they were bound to powerful technologies. So is there a cybernetic component to the Wr'kncacntr in Eternal? If there is, how could it exist in relation to a being which enhabits a blackhole or the core of a star?
I'd like to rationalize this as further evidence that the Wr'kncacntr are essentially corrupted or evil Jjaro (like the Ori from SG-1) - perhaps the technology of the Wr'kncacntr is such that they have the ability to make vessels which can allow them to exist in chaotic places, but I know that your take on them is different from mine.
And speaking of plot holes, just what *is* the cybernetic junction? We see it in Dread Not, but in that level it nigh takes up a whole room - if we have one, and The Drinniol From Hell had one, then obviously it needs to be a lot smaller than that, right?
: So you, a physical being, must bring a bubble of physical reality with you
: when you go Outside.
Gotcha, that makes sense. That also explains the dream levels in Infinity, too.
: The great cycle, "causal tautology" or "one true
: timeline", is a creation of the Jjaro. Once you have completed your
: task in creating it for them, they leave you to go do whatever, who cares,
: your Destiny was fulfilled the moment you killed Hathor and ignited the
: Sphere. But then Leela sends you outside and "Jjarandal" (as I
: nicknamed him) picks you up and the two of you set off on your own cosmic
: task of trying to circumvent the last part of the their cycle; the part
: that ends up on The Far Side of Nowhere.
What confuses me is that you speak of the Jjaro as if they were/are a distinct race of being trying to pull the strings, yet Leela tells us that pretty much any "ascended being" (to borrow more SG-1 terminology) effectively becomes a Jjaro, including Durandal/Thoth ("Jjarandal").
Also with respect to the Sphere - it didn't really go off, did it? My impression was that the Sphere's ignition was stopped by Hathor and her antics.
Also, did the "original" Jjaro "ascend", or were they just all wiped out by the Wr'kncacntr? 343 GS - uh, I mean the monitor - tells us that we are the last; but he's not very high up in the hierarchy as a construct. Is it possible there could be other Spheres out there?
: So yeah, I guess the Near Side is another failure level. Never thought of it
: quite like that. But it's a failure with new hope, for now you are truly
: free. The other failures were failures to do as you were
: "destined" to do, and those "wrong" choices were made
: to lead to failures so that would be guided down the path the Jjaro wanted
: you to take. But now, you see that their entire endeavor leads only to
: failure; though as they believe they have succeeded, your duty as the
: Jjaro's "Destiny" is now discharged - where you go from here is
: up to you.
Oh, I see. It's just that in the context of the first level, we really do fail - we can't change the past/future in the course of the game because the timeline leading up to Far Side of Nowhere is apparently how things are supposed to happen in the first place. I have to say, I felt kinda depressed from the ending - I mean, from the terminal text it seemed like I was going to get dumped right back into the S'pht levels in Chapter 3.
If Near Side of Everywhere is the actual ending level for the game (and I didn't just miss a fork in the road of the plot) then it just begs for a sequel, and I have to say, it left me feeling a little unsatisfied that things are left hanging in terms of the plot. I know you don't see it that way, but to me, I don't think it's made explicit enough that there is hope, now that we have truly ascended to godhood. I think it would be really nice to tie it all in with Durandal's radical shift in character - how he says that he was originally obsessed with escaping the closure of the universe, but now finds such concerns trivial; in our own way, we are obsessed with saving humanity, but when that's put into perspective versus being Outside, and the fate of the galaxy (and even the universe) at the hands of the Wr'kncacntr, that concern too becomes trivial as well.
Concievably, this could also be further developed to a crucial choice; save humanity or save the universe. (I can imagine a UESC dreadnought level which isn't actually a "failure" level - one where the humans have assembled into a fleet of ships which are all that is left of our universe, where the humans are hatching a plan to enter another universe and colonize that (or go into stasis until another one is found or formed for them to inhabit).
If you really are going to bring some sense of closure to the plot (no pun intended) with Omega then I'd like to ask humbly if you could make some provision for Omega to be playable in single-player.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Eternally Perplexing Questions rampancy 3/11/08 12:34 p.m.

Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions Forrest of B.org 3/11/08 3:54 p.m.

Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions rampancy 3/11/08 5:31 p.m.

Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions Forrest of B.org 3/12/08 7:56 a.m.

Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions rampancy 3/12/08 9:06 a.m.

Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions Forrest of B.org 3/12/08 10:34 a.m.

Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions Forrest of B.org 3/12/08 2:20 p.m.

Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions rampancy 3/12/08 4:33 p.m.

Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions Forrest of B.org 3/13/08 7:54 a.m.

Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions Forrest of B.org 3/12/08 11:19 a.m.

Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions rampancy 3/12/08 4:37 p.m.

Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions Forrest of B.org 3/13/08 8:25 a.m.

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Pre-2004 Posts

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: Well, it makes sense to me - otherwise, how could there be PiD monsters in : the Sphere without the Wr'kncacntr creating them? If the Wr'kncacntr are : really just malevolent energy beings á la Star Trek, then they could have : easily passed into the Sphere as the Jjaro were retreating into it. : What I don't get though is how you said that they were bound to powerful : technologies. So is there a cybernetic component to the Wr'kncacntr in : Eternal? If there is, how could it exist in relation to a being which : enhabits a blackhole or the core of a star? : I'd like to rationalize this as further evidence that the Wr'kncacntr are : essentially corrupted or evil Jjaro (like the Ori from SG-1) - perhaps the : technology of the Wr'kncacntr is such that they have the ability to make : vessels which can allow them to exist in chaotic places, but I know that : your take on them is different from mine. : And speaking of plot holes, just what *is* the cybernetic junction? We see it : in Dread Not, but in that level it nigh takes up a whole room - if we have : one, and The Drinniol From Hell had one, then obviously it needs to be a : lot smaller than that, right? : Gotcha, that makes sense. That also explains the dream levels in Infinity, : too. : What confuses me is that you speak of the Jjaro as if they were/are a : distinct race of being trying to pull the strings, yet Leela tells us that : pretty much any "ascended being" (to borrow more SG-1 : terminology) effectively becomes a Jjaro, including Durandal/Thoth : ("Jjarandal"). : Also with respect to the Sphere - it didn't really go off, did it? My : impression was that the Sphere's ignition was stopped by Hathor and her : antics. : Also, did the "original" Jjaro "ascend", or were they : just all wiped out by the Wr'kncacntr? 343 GS - uh, I mean the monitor - : tells us that we are the last; but he's not very high up in the hierarchy : as a construct. Is it possible there could be other Spheres out there? : Oh, I see. It's just that in the context of the first level, we really do : fail - we can't change the past/future in the course of the game because : the timeline leading up to Far Side of Nowhere is apparently how things : are supposed to happen in the first place. I have to say, I felt kinda : depressed from the ending - I mean, from the terminal text it seemed like : I was going to get dumped right back into the S'pht levels in Chapter 3. : If Near Side of Everywhere is the actual ending level for the game (and I : didn't just miss a fork in the road of the plot) then it just begs for a : sequel, and I have to say, it left me feeling a little unsatisfied that : things are left hanging in terms of the plot. I know you don't see it that : way, but to me, I don't think it's made explicit enough that there is : hope, now that we have truly ascended to godhood. I think it would be : really nice to tie it all in with Durandal's radical shift in character - : how he says that he was originally obsessed with escaping the closure of : the universe, but now finds such concerns trivial; in our own way, we are : obsessed with saving humanity, but when that's put into perspective versus : being Outside, and the fate of the galaxy (and even the universe) at the : hands of the Wr'kncacntr, that concern too becomes trivial as well. : Concievably, this could also be further developed to a crucial choice; save : humanity or save the universe. (I can imagine a UESC dreadnought level : which isn't actually a "failure" level - one where the humans : have assembled into a fleet of ships which are all that is left of our : universe, where the humans are hatching a plan to enter another universe : and colonize that (or go into stasis until another one is found or formed : for them to inhabit). : If you really are going to bring some sense of closure to the plot (no pun : intended) with Omega then I'd like to ask humbly if you could make some : provision for Omega to be playable in single-player.

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Eternally Perplexing Questions	rampancy	3/11/08 12:34 p.m.
Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions	Forrest of B.org	3/11/08 3:54 p.m.
Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions	rampancy	3/11/08 5:31 p.m.
Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions	Forrest of B.org	3/12/08 7:56 a.m.
Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions	rampancy	3/12/08 9:06 a.m.
Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions	Forrest of B.org	3/12/08 10:34 a.m.
Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions	Forrest of B.org	3/12/08 2:20 p.m.
Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions	rampancy	3/12/08 4:33 p.m.
Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions	Forrest of B.org	3/13/08 7:54 a.m.
Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions	Forrest of B.org	3/12/08 11:19 a.m.
Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions	rampancy	3/12/08 4:37 p.m.
Re: Eternally Perplexing Questions	Forrest of B.org	3/13/08 8:25 a.m.



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	Message: : Well, it makes sense to me - otherwise, how could there be PiD monsters in : the Sphere without the Wr'kncacntr creating them? If the Wr'kncacntr are : really just malevolent energy beings á la Star Trek, then they could have : easily passed into the Sphere as the Jjaro were retreating into it. : What I don't get though is how you said that they were bound to powerful : technologies. So is there a cybernetic component to the Wr'kncacntr in : Eternal? If there is, how could it exist in relation to a being which : enhabits a blackhole or the core of a star? : I'd like to rationalize this as further evidence that the Wr'kncacntr are : essentially corrupted or evil Jjaro (like the Ori from SG-1) - perhaps the : technology of the Wr'kncacntr is such that they have the ability to make : vessels which can allow them to exist in chaotic places, but I know that : your take on them is different from mine. : And speaking of plot holes, just what is the cybernetic junction? We see it : in Dread Not, but in that level it nigh takes up a whole room - if we have : one, and The Drinniol From Hell had one, then obviously it needs to be a : lot smaller than that, right? : Gotcha, that makes sense. That also explains the dream levels in Infinity, : too. : What confuses me is that you speak of the Jjaro as if they were/are a : distinct race of being trying to pull the strings, yet Leela tells us that : pretty much any "ascended being" (to borrow more SG-1 : terminology) effectively becomes a Jjaro, including Durandal/Thoth : ("Jjarandal"). : Also with respect to the Sphere - it didn't really go off, did it? My : impression was that the Sphere's ignition was stopped by Hathor and her : antics. : Also, did the "original" Jjaro "ascend", or were they : just all wiped out by the Wr'kncacntr? 343 GS - uh, I mean the monitor - : tells us that we are the last; but he's not very high up in the hierarchy : as a construct. Is it possible there could be other Spheres out there? : Oh, I see. It's just that in the context of the first level, we really do : fail - we can't change the past/future in the course of the game because : the timeline leading up to Far Side of Nowhere is apparently how things : are supposed to happen in the first place. I have to say, I felt kinda : depressed from the ending - I mean, from the terminal text it seemed like : I was going to get dumped right back into the S'pht levels in Chapter 3. : If Near Side of Everywhere is the actual ending level for the game (and I : didn't just miss a fork in the road of the plot) then it just begs for a : sequel, and I have to say, it left me feeling a little unsatisfied that : things are left hanging in terms of the plot. I know you don't see it that : way, but to me, I don't think it's made explicit enough that there is : hope, now that we have truly ascended to godhood. I think it would be : really nice to tie it all in with Durandal's radical shift in character - : how he says that he was originally obsessed with escaping the closure of : the universe, but now finds such concerns trivial; in our own way, we are : obsessed with saving humanity, but when that's put into perspective versus : being Outside, and the fate of the galaxy (and even the universe) at the : hands of the Wr'kncacntr, that concern too becomes trivial as well. : Concievably, this could also be further developed to a crucial choice; save : humanity or save the universe. (I can imagine a UESC dreadnought level : which isn't actually a "failure" level - one where the humans : have assembled into a fleet of ships which are all that is left of our : universe, where the humans are hatching a plan to enter another universe : and colonize that (or go into stasis until another one is found or formed : for them to inhabit). : If you really are going to bring some sense of closure to the plot (no pun : intended) with Omega then I'd like to ask humbly if you could make some : provision for Omega to be playable in single-player.
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