Re: PF Volunteers - The Gray Behind the Red


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Re: PF Volunteers - The Gray Behind the Red

Posted By: Dr. John Sumner Date: 8/16/04 4:39 a.m.
In Response To: PF Volunteers - The Gray Behind the Red (Steve Levinson)

: Unfortunately, it also seems
: to suffer from problems with monster freeze - I have run into this problem
: both times I ran through the scenario. I suspect that there are just too
: many active monsters and it may be necessary to cull the numbers somewhat
: to have the full effect of the intended final room.
I too had this problem both times I played the level. I think part of the problem is that all of the plants are actually "monsters" themselves. If you examine this level in Pfhorte, you will see that the plants are listed as though they were "Crew Persons", "Engineering Persons" or "Science Persons". Is there any way these items can be set up to be "Scenery", such as the "paper scraps" and "trash cans" in other levels of PF? Another shortcoming with having these plants count as "monsters" is that once a Trooper berserks, it will treat the plants as enemies and begin firing at them. It's quite hilarious to see a Trooper all alone in a corner of one of the rooms, shooting away at a bush. This situation also has the potential of occuring in the later levels "Public Transit" and "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles".
Another thing that might be contributing to the monster freeze is the "Glue Trigger" poly right outside of the opening room. While it functions to wake up the enemies in the opening large area, it also wakes up some of the enemies in the small overlooking room within the final large area of the level. It's my suspicion that in waking up these enemies, they in turn wake up other enemies in the final area. Keeping these enemies from waking should cut down on the chance of monster freeze.
: Although it would be nice to simply circle them, I have
: found that there is just too much scrub in the way, so I generally lay
: down some mines and then retreat, finishing them off from the relative
: safety of my alcove.
Given my style of play and my unrealistic demands that I use no ammo if possible, this is one of the hardest openings for me. Basically, I jump out of the opening room, make one quick circle around the compound and head back into the opening room. If you stand against the wall opposite the stairs, a Trooper on the stairs will fire his grenades at you, hitting the stairway wall instead and eventually berserk. At that point, he will take out all the remaining enemies. That's how I handle the opening.
: Part way through is a longish corridor with the
: aforementioned instruction terminal.
I have found that the enemies tend to clog up the doorway at the end of this corridor, as though they are afraid of coming down the corridor. I suppose it is a by-product of the monster freeze. Still, if you are patient enough, the enemies will eventually come down the corridor and jump off into the water. Even though we can get out of the water easily, they cannot. The player can then just leave the enemies to frolic in the water.
: There is one
: area down there, however, that looks intriguing but, as far as I can tell,
: it and its monsters are inaccessible.
Yes, according to Pfhorte, that area is inaccessible. I have noticed that this is a recurring situation in PF. TI was another scenario that had quite a few inaccessible areas. It's frustrating to a player like me because I want to investigate EVERY area of the level. I suppose though having inaccessible areas is more realistic.
: But be sure to grab the ammo available by
: leaping across before proceeding.
Also look carefully in the bushes, as some of the ammo is hidden there.
: Through the door is a somewhat circuitous corridor with an ambush from behind
: to watch for.
Now that's interesting. How you actually had the enemies in these alcoves attack you from behind Steve? Both times I played, they just sat there, another by-product of the monster freeze.
: The other end of the corridor leads
: to the final area - a large open garden with a ton of monsters - major
: fighters, troopers, hulks and soon to be released enforcers.
: Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your point of view, I generally
: find this room to be frozen and it can be difficult to even get some of
: the monsters to fight you, just to get them out of the way. I presume this
: will be fixed in the next release.
Ok, I know I am cutting my own throat by by bringing this up, but I have to mention something about this final area and the level mission. This level is designated as type "Exploration". There is only one "must be explored" poly in the entire level. It is located right at the opening into this final large area and can actually be "seen" while still standing at the top of the stairs that leads to the final area. However, in Marathon 1 scenarios, the player does not have to actually step on the "must be explored" poly in order to accomplish the mission. Consequently, the player does not have to enter this final area at all. Once the "must be explored" poly has been "seen" in the player's map view, the level can be safely exitted. Thus, it would seem to me that Matt and Andrew should move that "must be explored" poly to one of the polys that cannot be seen from that stairway. That will force the player to enter the final area. Besides, we are told to kill all Enforcers and there are quite a few of them in this area.
So, why is this cutting my own throat? Because, I have not been able to vid this level while visiting this final area. The many times I have reached this area, I have not been able to survive long enough to escape. Of course, one can vid this level easily since it is not necessary to visit this last area. However, I would like to finish a vid of the level, visiting all areas, and defeating all enemies. The main problem is the lack of a "decent" weapon. The level only provides a "Fusion Gun" and a "Missile Launcher'. Unfortunately, the "Missile Launcher" is in the final room. Thus I have a major request for Matt and Andrew. If they or no one else has an objection, would it be possible to include somewhere in the level a redundant AR so that I might have a better shot at vidding the entire level? Since there are redundant weapons on other levels, I figure this is not an unreasonable request. Just make sure it's placed somewhere before the final room.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

PF Volunteers - The Gray Behind the Red Steve Levinson 8/15/04 6:55 p.m.

Re: PF Volunteers - The Gray Behind the Red Dr. John Sumner 8/16/04 4:39 a.m.

Re: PF Volunteers - The Gray Behind the Red Steve Levinson 8/16/04 6:38 a.m.

Re: PF Volunteers - Pesticides With Chicken mattschenk 8/16/04 6:42 a.m.

oops, should be "Gray Behind the Red" *NM* *NM* mattschenk 8/16/04 6:45 a.m.

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Pre-2004 Posts

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: I too had this problem both times I played the level. I think part of the : problem is that all of the plants are actually "monsters" : themselves. If you examine this level in Pfhorte, you will see that the : plants are listed as though they were "Crew Persons", : "Engineering Persons" or "Science Persons". Is there : any way these items can be set up to be "Scenery", such as the : "paper scraps" and "trash cans" in other levels of PF? : Another shortcoming with having these plants count as "monsters" : is that once a Trooper berserks, it will treat the plants as enemies and : begin firing at them. It's quite hilarious to see a Trooper all alone in a : corner of one of the rooms, shooting away at a bush. This situation also : has the potential of occuring in the later levels "Public : Transit" and "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles". : Another thing that might be contributing to the monster freeze is the : "Glue Trigger" poly right outside of the opening room. While it : functions to wake up the enemies in the opening large area, it also wakes : up some of the enemies in the small overlooking room within the final : large area of the level. It's my suspicion that in waking up these : enemies, they in turn wake up other enemies in the final area. Keeping : these enemies from waking should cut down on the chance of monster freeze. : Given my style of play and my unrealistic demands that I use no ammo if : possible, this is one of the hardest openings for me. Basically, I jump : out of the opening room, make one quick circle around the compound and : head back into the opening room. If you stand against the wall opposite : the stairs, a Trooper on the stairs will fire his grenades at you, hitting : the stairway wall instead and eventually berserk. At that point, he will : take out all the remaining enemies. That's how I handle the opening. : I have found that the enemies tend to clog up the doorway at the end of this : corridor, as though they are afraid of coming down the corridor. I suppose : it is a by-product of the monster freeze. Still, if you are patient : enough, the enemies will eventually come down the corridor and jump off : into the water. Even though we can get out of the water easily, they : cannot. The player can then just leave the enemies to frolic in the water. : Yes, according to Pfhorte, that area is inaccessible. I have noticed that : this is a recurring situation in PF. TI was another scenario that had : quite a few inaccessible areas. It's frustrating to a player like me : because I want to investigate EVERY area of the level. I suppose though : having inaccessible areas is more realistic. : Also look carefully in the bushes, as some of the ammo is hidden there. : Now that's interesting. How you actually had the enemies in these alcoves : attack you from behind Steve? Both times I played, they just sat there, : another by-product of the monster freeze. : Ok, I know I am cutting my own throat by by bringing this up, but I have to : mention something about this final area and the level mission. This level : is designated as type "Exploration". There is only one : "must be explored" poly in the entire level. It is located right : at the opening into this final large area and can actually be : "seen" while still standing at the top of the stairs that leads : to the final area. However, in Marathon 1 scenarios, the player does not : have to actually step on the "must be explored" poly in order to : accomplish the mission. Consequently, the player does not have to enter : this final area at all. Once the "must be explored" poly has : been "seen" in the player's map view, the level can be safely : exitted. Thus, it would seem to me that Matt and Andrew should move that : "must be explored" poly to one of the polys that cannot be seen : from that stairway. That will force the player to enter the final area. : Besides, we are told to kill all Enforcers and there are quite a few of : them in this area. : So, why is this cutting my own throat? Because, I have not been able to vid : this level while visiting this final area. The many times I have reached : this area, I have not been able to survive long enough to escape. Of : course, one can vid this level easily since it is not necessary to visit : this last area. However, I would like to finish a vid of the level, : visiting all areas, and defeating all enemies. The main problem is the : lack of a "decent" weapon. The level only provides a : "Fusion Gun" and a "Missile Launcher'. Unfortunately, the : "Missile Launcher" is in the final room. Thus I have a major : request for Matt and Andrew. If they or no one else has an objection, : would it be possible to include somewhere in the level a redundant AR so : that I might have a better shot at vidding the entire level? Since there : are redundant weapons on other levels, I figure this is not an : unreasonable request. Just make sure it's placed somewhere before the : final room.

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PF Volunteers - The Gray Behind the Red	Steve Levinson	8/15/04 6:55 p.m.
Re: PF Volunteers - The Gray Behind the Red	Dr. John Sumner	8/16/04 4:39 a.m.
Re: PF Volunteers - The Gray Behind the Red	Steve Levinson	8/16/04 6:38 a.m.
Re: PF Volunteers - Pesticides With Chicken	mattschenk	8/16/04 6:42 a.m.
oops, should be "Gray Behind the Red" NM NM	mattschenk	8/16/04 6:45 a.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : I too had this problem both times I played the level. I think part of the : problem is that all of the plants are actually "monsters" : themselves. If you examine this level in Pfhorte, you will see that the : plants are listed as though they were "Crew Persons", : "Engineering Persons" or "Science Persons". Is there : any way these items can be set up to be "Scenery", such as the : "paper scraps" and "trash cans" in other levels of PF? : Another shortcoming with having these plants count as "monsters" : is that once a Trooper berserks, it will treat the plants as enemies and : begin firing at them. It's quite hilarious to see a Trooper all alone in a : corner of one of the rooms, shooting away at a bush. This situation also : has the potential of occuring in the later levels "Public : Transit" and "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles". : Another thing that might be contributing to the monster freeze is the : "Glue Trigger" poly right outside of the opening room. While it : functions to wake up the enemies in the opening large area, it also wakes : up some of the enemies in the small overlooking room within the final : large area of the level. It's my suspicion that in waking up these : enemies, they in turn wake up other enemies in the final area. Keeping : these enemies from waking should cut down on the chance of monster freeze. : Given my style of play and my unrealistic demands that I use no ammo if : possible, this is one of the hardest openings for me. Basically, I jump : out of the opening room, make one quick circle around the compound and : head back into the opening room. If you stand against the wall opposite : the stairs, a Trooper on the stairs will fire his grenades at you, hitting : the stairway wall instead and eventually berserk. At that point, he will : take out all the remaining enemies. That's how I handle the opening. : I have found that the enemies tend to clog up the doorway at the end of this : corridor, as though they are afraid of coming down the corridor. I suppose : it is a by-product of the monster freeze. Still, if you are patient : enough, the enemies will eventually come down the corridor and jump off : into the water. Even though we can get out of the water easily, they : cannot. The player can then just leave the enemies to frolic in the water. : Yes, according to Pfhorte, that area is inaccessible. I have noticed that : this is a recurring situation in PF. TI was another scenario that had : quite a few inaccessible areas. It's frustrating to a player like me : because I want to investigate EVERY area of the level. I suppose though : having inaccessible areas is more realistic. : Also look carefully in the bushes, as some of the ammo is hidden there. : Now that's interesting. How you actually had the enemies in these alcoves : attack you from behind Steve? Both times I played, they just sat there, : another by-product of the monster freeze. : Ok, I know I am cutting my own throat by by bringing this up, but I have to : mention something about this final area and the level mission. This level : is designated as type "Exploration". There is only one : "must be explored" poly in the entire level. It is located right : at the opening into this final large area and can actually be : "seen" while still standing at the top of the stairs that leads : to the final area. However, in Marathon 1 scenarios, the player does not : have to actually step on the "must be explored" poly in order to : accomplish the mission. Consequently, the player does not have to enter : this final area at all. Once the "must be explored" poly has : been "seen" in the player's map view, the level can be safely : exitted. Thus, it would seem to me that Matt and Andrew should move that : "must be explored" poly to one of the polys that cannot be seen : from that stairway. That will force the player to enter the final area. : Besides, we are told to kill all Enforcers and there are quite a few of : them in this area. : So, why is this cutting my own throat? Because, I have not been able to vid : this level while visiting this final area. The many times I have reached : this area, I have not been able to survive long enough to escape. Of : course, one can vid this level easily since it is not necessary to visit : this last area. However, I would like to finish a vid of the level, : visiting all areas, and defeating all enemies. The main problem is the : lack of a "decent" weapon. The level only provides a : "Fusion Gun" and a "Missile Launcher'. Unfortunately, the : "Missile Launcher" is in the final room. Thus I have a major : request for Matt and Andrew. If they or no one else has an objection, : would it be possible to include somewhere in the level a redundant AR so : that I might have a better shot at vidding the entire level? Since there : are redundant weapons on other levels, I figure this is not an : unreasonable request. Just make sure it's placed somewhere before the : final room.
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