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Re: To clarify
Posted By: Leviathan <levihoffmeier@gmail.com>	Date: 4/16/12 3:58 p.m.
In Response To: Re: To clarify (Cody Miller) : No. As HP says, there is a necessary and direct progression in the campaign. : You can't get to level 2 without beating level 1. You physically can't. : Rearrange the levels, and you STILL can't get to the second level without : finishing the first! And it's a necessary and direct progression with unlockables as well - you physically can't rearrange the challenges and rewards, and you STILL can't get to the challenge maps without solving the riddles. : However take out the Sabre mode from Reach's campaign and make it a minigame, : and nothing about that requires it to be tied to anything else. You could : put it on the main menu accessible from the beginning. Nothing about a : sabre minigame mode requires the completion of anything else and should be : available from the start. : But put that exact same minigame into the campaign, and now you see that : completing all the levels before it are absolutely necessary, because you : have to progress through the levels in a linear fashion. It's physically : impossible to get to Reach's sabre section without playing everything : before it when it is in the campaign mode. And if that minigame was locked at first, and required some sort of accomplishment to play it? I could describe it in the EXACT same manner as you did with the campaign. Beating Tip of the Spear - unlocks Sabre gameplay Collecting Riddles - unlocks Challenge Maps It's required linear progression by the designer, forcing you to play one type of gameplay to reach another. It's the exact same principle, with different names. : So it doesn't matter one bit if your campaign is a grab bag of mechanics and : styles; the levels are tied together necessarily due to the required : progression from one to the next. But remove them from the campaign, and : they are no longer bound to this rule. And I'm saying that design notion of tying the levels together in a required progression is the EXACT same design principle that ties together a Riddle and a Challenge Maps. Campaigns don't have to have linear progression just like unlockables, you could just throw all the different playspaces and playstyles out there to the player at once, just like you could do to unlockables. But instead, designers wrap these separate stages/levels/etc. together to form a linear progression to force the player to play through them all, because they think that would be fun. And in the exact same manner, designers CAN wrap challenges and their unlockables together to form a linear progression to force the player to play through them all, because they think that would be fun. Is it always fun? By no means, just like all campaigns aren't fun. But it's the EXACT same design, presented in a different manner.

Halo: A Fistful of Arrows

Message Index

Present thoughts about the future *long*	Hedgemony	4/11/12 9:44 p.m.
I'm Grim, & this is my favorite post on the forum *NM*	GrimBrother One	4/11/12 9:50 p.m.
Hear hear! *NM*	Das Kalk	4/11/12 9:53 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	4/11/12 10:16 p.m.
Brilliantly well put, mirrors my own thoughts. *NM*	Tiny	4/11/12 10:19 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	stabbim	4/11/12 10:23 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	bluerunner	4/11/12 10:26 p.m.
well put *NM*	kidtsunami	4/11/12 10:29 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	KP	4/11/12 10:31 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	tucsonbatman	4/11/12 10:57 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	DEEP NNN	4/12/12 6:37 a.m.
Just you wait. You're next! :p *NM*	rhubarb	4/12/12 10:57 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	breitzen	4/11/12 10:41 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Frankie	4/12/12 12:21 a.m.
Frankie's mental image of HBO until release	The Lionheart	4/12/12 12:36 a.m.
You dun good kid, great post. *NM*	Pebbles	4/12/12 12:55 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Frankie	4/12/12 12:26 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Quirel	4/12/12 12:46 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Das Kalk	4/12/12 10:52 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Metalingus627	4/12/12 5:00 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	kanbo	4/11/12 10:52 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Vic DeLeon	4/11/12 10:56 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Der Flatulator	4/16/12 9:44 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Der Flatulator	4/16/12 9:49 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	RC Master	4/16/12 10:58 a.m.
We have seen the angst before.	Captain Spark	4/11/12 11:00 p.m.
Agreed	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	4/11/12 11:04 p.m.
Sing it! Truth. *NM*	yakaman	4/11/12 11:11 p.m.
Well put, indeed. *NM*	Leviathan	4/11/12 11:22 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	uberfoop	4/11/12 11:35 p.m.
Re: Change is gouda. *NM*	Hedgemony	4/11/12 11:37 p.m.
Halo 4 LE = Wheel of smoked gouda? *NM*	uberfoop	4/12/12 12:09 a.m.
Thank you again...	GrimBrother One	4/11/12 11:49 p.m.
Re: Thank you again...	Tiny	4/12/12 7:53 a.m.
Why Halo 4 will be a very bad game *Long, IMGs*	Schooly D	4/12/12 12:07 a.m.
Exquisitely well put, Hedge.	The Lionheart	4/12/12 12:23 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Morhek	4/12/12 12:36 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	stabbim	4/12/12 12:48 a.m.
Can a hipster hate hating? Is that possible? *NM*	The Lionheart	4/12/12 12:56 a.m.
I for one, can't wait for E3	Pebbles	4/12/12 1:01 a.m.
Love is the new hate. *NM*	Kalamari	4/12/12 1:25 a.m.
Oh Yeah?	Bones	4/12/12 1:21 a.m.
Hedgemony: Voice of Reason and Love *NM*	thebruce0	4/12/12 1:44 a.m.
I'm finding it harder to express my thoughts...	Phoenix_9286	4/12/12 2:16 a.m.
Re: I'm finding it harder to express my thoughts..	NsU Soldier	4/12/12 5:24 a.m.
Josh Holmes took notice of this on twitter. *NM*	Bryan Newman	4/12/12 2:17 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	BlueNinja	4/12/12 5:36 a.m.
Of course you still have a place here.	The Lionheart	4/12/12 11:45 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	General Vagueness	4/16/12 6:54 p.m.
I don't have favorites, but you're my favorite. *NM*	Louis Wu	4/12/12 6:44 a.m.
Nicely put :) *NM*	Ciarán	4/12/12 6:48 a.m.
Well said. *NM*	Beckx	4/12/12 7:23 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	DEEP NNN	4/12/12 7:37 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	SonofMacPhisto	4/12/12 8:38 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	CaneCutter	4/12/12 8:06 a.m.
Completely Agree (Glad Someone Said It!)	ChrisTheeCrappy	4/12/12 8:57 a.m.
Re: Completely Agree (Glad Someone Said It!)	JDQuackers	4/12/12 12:18 p.m.
i agree	iForge	4/12/12 10:37 a.m.
Finally!	Der Flatulator	4/12/12 10:45 a.m.
Re: Finally!	Der Flatulator	4/12/12 10:54 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Tawpgun	4/12/12 10:58 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Postmortem	4/12/12 10:58 a.m.
Hedge is a Hammer	Impervium	4/12/12 11:08 a.m.
Well met, sir.	dogsounds	4/12/12 12:08 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	padraig08	4/12/12 12:10 p.m.
Best thing I've read on the net in a long while!	LostSpartan987	4/12/12 12:36 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Cody Miller	4/12/12 3:23 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	DEEP NNN	4/12/12 4:03 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Hawaiian Pig	4/12/12 11:30 p.m.
your thoughts on "social"	kidtsunami	4/13/12 2:26 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	MacGyver10	4/12/12 3:31 p.m.
You made my day, Hedge	CortanaVII	4/12/12 4:36 p.m.
Amen. *NM*	Lawnmower172	4/12/12 5:16 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	GreyThor	4/12/12 8:51 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Quantum	4/12/12 11:04 p.m.
My thoughts on this situation.	Gravemind	4/13/12 6:31 p.m.
Re: My thoughts on this situation.	Gravemind	4/13/12 6:39 p.m.
Re: My thoughts on this situation.	343winks.	4/14/12 12:19 p.m.
Like you've spoken for me. *Sorta Long*	DrDoctor	4/13/12 11:29 p.m.
Change *slightly-long*	Der Flatulator	4/14/12 8:50 a.m.
Re: Change *slightly-long*	DEEP NNN	4/14/12 9:03 a.m.
It isn't all good.	rhubarb	4/14/12 10:40 a.m.
Re: It isn't all good.	serpx	4/14/12 2:45 p.m.
Re: It isn't all good.	rhubarb	4/14/12 3:29 p.m.
Change for change's sake.	Gravemind	4/14/12 7:11 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Harmanimus	4/14/12 7:59 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Gravemind	4/14/12 8:32 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Cody Miller	4/14/12 10:07 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Leviathan	4/14/12 10:52 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Cody Miller	4/15/12 12:20 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	SonofMacPhisto	4/15/12 9:04 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Leviathan	4/15/12 1:36 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Cody Miller	4/15/12 2:18 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Hawaiian Pig	4/15/12 2:29 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Leviathan	4/15/12 2:33 p.m.
To HP and Levi	rhubarb	4/15/12 3:01 p.m.
Not at all	Leviathan	4/15/12 3:15 p.m.
Re: Not at all	rhubarb	4/15/12 3:27 p.m.
Re: Not at all	Leviathan	4/15/12 3:47 p.m.
Warning: Unintended rant	Metalingus627	4/15/12 5:13 p.m.
Alienation is unavoidable	rhubarb	4/15/12 5:31 p.m.
Re: Alienation is unavoidable	Metalingus627	4/15/12 5:47 p.m.
Because A sucks and B is an egg, obviously.	rhubarb	4/15/12 6:31 p.m.
Re: Because A sucks and B is an egg, obviously.	Metalingus627	4/15/12 7:04 p.m.
My point is...	rhubarb	4/15/12 7:55 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DHalo	4/15/12 8:24 p.m.
Re: My point is...	rhubarb	4/15/12 8:45 p.m.
Re: My point is...	Cody Miller	4/15/12 9:04 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DHalo	4/15/12 9:55 p.m.
Re: My point is...	uberfoop	4/15/12 10:11 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DHalo	4/15/12 10:18 p.m.
Re: My point is...	uberfoop	4/15/12 10:26 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DHalo	4/15/12 11:01 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/16/12 6:46 a.m.
Re: My point is...	RC Master	4/16/12 11:12 a.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/16/12 11:52 a.m.
Re: to add to this	Revenant1988	4/16/12 12:25 p.m.
PirateUnicorns.bungie.org	RC Master	4/16/12 6:23 p.m.
Re: PirateUnicorns.bungie.org	Revenant1988	4/16/12 7:39 p.m.
Re: PirateUnicorns.bungie.org	thebruce0	4/17/12 11:18 a.m.
Re: PirateUnicorns.bungie.org	RC Master	4/17/12 9:11 p.m.
Re: My point is...	RC Master	4/16/12 6:09 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/16/12 7:21 p.m.
Re: My point is...	uberfoop	4/16/12 7:54 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/16/12 8:01 p.m.
Re: My point is...	uberfoop	4/16/12 8:06 p.m.
Re: My point is...	General Vagueness	4/16/12 10:43 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/17/12 7:54 a.m.
Re: My point is...	General Vagueness	4/17/12 10:51 a.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/17/12 11:02 a.m.
Re: My point is...	General Vagueness	4/17/12 12:37 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/17/12 1:32 p.m.
Re: My point is...	RC Master	4/17/12 8:33 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/17/12 10:43 p.m.
Re: My point is...	Metalingus627	4/16/12 2:52 p.m.
Re: My point is...	uberfoop	4/16/12 3:08 p.m.
Re: My point is...	Metalingus627	4/16/12 10:18 p.m.
Re: My point is...	Gravemind	4/16/12 3:17 p.m.
Re: My point is...	Quirel	4/16/12 6:17 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	SonGoharotto	4/14/12 11:29 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Hawaiian Pig	4/15/12 12:53 a.m.
I have my moments *NM*	SonGoharotto	4/15/12 8:08 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	343winks.	4/15/12 3:55 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	RC Master	4/15/12 10:32 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Hedgemony	4/15/12 12:30 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	343winks.	4/16/12 4:50 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	343winks.	4/16/12 4:45 a.m.
I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Louis Wu	4/15/12 8:31 a.m.
Just playing Devil's advocate here...	SonGoharotto	4/15/12 9:23 a.m.
Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here...	Louis Wu	4/15/12 9:43 a.m.
Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here...	davidfuchs	4/15/12 9:53 a.m.
Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here...	SonGoharotto	4/15/12 11:30 a.m.
Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here...	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	4/15/12 12:13 p.m.
Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here...	General Vagueness	4/16/12 7:05 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Gravemind	4/15/12 12:38 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Louis Wu	4/15/12 12:48 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Cody Miller	4/15/12 1:04 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Leviathan	4/15/12 1:47 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Cody Miller	4/15/12 2:16 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Leviathan	4/15/12 2:27 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Hawaiian Pig	4/15/12 2:28 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Hawaiian Pig	4/15/12 2:31 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Leviathan	4/15/12 2:35 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Hawaiian Pig	4/15/12 2:54 p.m.
To clarify	Leviathan	4/15/12 3:01 p.m.
Re: To clarify	rhubarb	4/15/12 3:07 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Schooly D	4/15/12 3:40 p.m.
The question everyone is dancing around	rhubarb	4/15/12 3:48 p.m.
This has nothing to do with CoD.	uberfoop	4/15/12 4:41 p.m.
Re: This has nothing to do with CoD.	rhubarb	4/15/12 5:07 p.m.
Re: This has nothing to do with CoD.	uberfoop	4/15/12 5:47 p.m.
Re: This has nothing to do with CoD.	rhubarb	4/15/12 6:04 p.m.
Re: The question everyone is dancing around	Cody Miller	4/15/12 5:20 p.m.
Re: The question everyone is dancing around	rhubarb	4/15/12 5:56 p.m.
Re: The question everyone is dancing around	Cody Miller	4/15/12 6:13 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/15/12 4:01 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Cody Miller	4/15/12 5:14 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/15/12 10:10 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Cody Miller	4/15/12 11:15 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/15/12 11:49 p.m.
leviathan's opinion makes mine redundant *NM*	kidtsunami	4/16/12 12:13 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Cody Miller	4/16/12 12:39 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/16/12 2:08 a.m.
Re: To clarify	343winks.	4/16/12 6:04 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Louis Wu	4/16/12 8:28 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Revenant1988	4/16/12 10:11 a.m.
...........what is this	Hawaiian Pig	4/16/12 12:33 p.m.
Re: ...........what is this	Louis Wu	4/16/12 12:53 p.m.
Re: ...........what is this	Hawaiian Pig	4/16/12 1:14 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Hawaiian Pig	4/16/12 12:46 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/16/12 2:11 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Cody Miller	4/16/12 2:13 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/16/12 2:30 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Cody Miller	4/16/12 3:18 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/16/12 3:58 p.m.
This conversation has gone in an awkward direction	uberfoop	4/16/12 4:11 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Leviathan	4/16/12 4:32 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Miguel Chavez	4/16/12 4:35 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Leviathan	4/16/12 4:44 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	4/16/12 9:58 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Hawaiian Pig	4/16/12 5:36 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	343winks.	4/17/12 5:58 a.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Leviathan	4/17/12 2:02 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Beckx	4/17/12 2:22 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Louis Wu	4/16/12 3:00 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Miguel Chavez	4/16/12 3:28 p.m.
Re: To clarify	343winks.	4/17/12 5:24 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Louis Wu	4/17/12 7:07 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Cody Miller	4/17/12 12:13 p.m.
Re: To clarify	General Vagueness	4/17/12 12:50 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Hawaiian Pig	4/17/12 10:59 p.m.
Re: To clarify	uberfoop	4/18/12 12:08 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Miguel Chavez	4/17/12 1:21 p.m.
GODWINNED *NM*	Cody Miller	4/17/12 1:58 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/17/12 2:19 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Miguel Chavez	4/17/12 3:51 p.m.
That's a lousy safe-word, Mig. *NM*	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	4/17/12 4:56 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Hawaiian Pig	4/17/12 11:00 p.m.
Re: To clarify	General Vagueness	4/17/12 10:45 a.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	uberfoop	4/15/12 4:52 p.m.
Change in Halo= Good	BWOLoneWolf	4/16/12 7:17 a.m.
Re: Change in Halo= Good	Metalingus627	4/16/12 10:48 a.m.
Re: Change in Halo= Good	Metalingus627	4/16/12 10:48 a.m.
Now here's what I'm wondering	SonGoharotto	4/15/12 1:25 p.m.
A tale of Spartan Points.	NsU Soldier	4/15/12 5:44 p.m.
The Spartan Phone is ringing!	SonGoharotto	4/15/12 9:19 p.m.
What if the Spartan phones... rang? *NM*	Louis Wu	4/16/12 8:31 a.m.
Re: A tale of Spartan Points.	General Vagueness	4/16/12 2:40 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	uberfoop	4/14/12 9:20 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Kermit	4/15/12 8:37 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	General Vagueness	4/16/12 12:45 a.m.
When threads get this long...	Tiny	4/16/12 4:08 p.m.
Re: When threads get this long...	uberfoop	4/16/12 4:13 p.m.
Re: When threads get this long...	Schooly D	4/16/12 4:26 p.m.
Re: When threads get this long...	Miguel Chavez	4/16/12 4:34 p.m.
This.	Urban Reflex	4/16/12 4:53 p.m.
Re: This.	Quirel	4/16/12 6:06 p.m.
Re: When threads get this long...	Tiny	4/16/12 10:36 p.m.
This thread is too long. Here, I'll make it longer	RC Master	4/16/12 6:51 p.m.
Re: This thread is too long. Here, I'll make it lo	Miguel Chavez	4/16/12 7:22 p.m.
Coke tastes better from a can.	Vandle Valsher	4/16/12 7:57 p.m.
Re: Coke tastes better from a can.	Miguel Chavez	4/16/12 8:40 p.m.
Re: Coke tastes better from a can.	Metalingus627	4/16/12 10:12 p.m.
Re: Coke tastes better from a can.	Gravemind	4/16/12 11:28 p.m.