Frequently Asked Forum Questions
Search the HBO News Archives Any All Exact		Search the Halo Updates DBs Halo Halo2		Bungie Webcam HBO XBL Gamertags *Ar's Simple HTML Guide Shishka's Guide for Newcomers The Lowdown on Download Accelerators Red Loser's Anti-Spamming Guide Egg FAQ | More Egg Stuff c0ld's Movie Starter Guide Shishka's HaloPC Pre-Release FAQ 3.1 AutoMagic 117 StripzMaker
Search Older Posts on This Forum: Posts on Current Forum | Archived Posts

Change for change's sake.
Posted By: Gravemind <kuukan_no_kage@yahoo.com>	Date: 4/14/12 7:11 p.m.
In Response To: Change *slightly-long* (Der Flatulator) : This is a copy of a post I wrote for the parallel thread on Waypoint, here : In reply to this post : Game developers want to 'push the envelope', create new experiences, add new : gameplay, new mechanics. No game developer want to remake a game, using : old technology, or the same gameplay as a game that already exists. Game : developers want to craft new exciting experiences, and contribute to the : evolution of gaming. : This would not happen if developers continually tweaked an experience until : it's "just right", because there is no "just right", : there will always be another bug, another glitch, another balance : impurity. Perfection is an asymptote, the closer you get to it, the : further it seems to be away. : Besides, Halo has been toying with the same essential gameplay for 10 years, : it's time for a fresh start, and what better opportunity for a fresh start : is a new development team? : Also, it is very difficult to emulate, let alone enhance someone else's game, : the vibe of games development isn't something that can be seen, written, : or heard; it has to be experienced. Picking up where Bungie left off (from : a gameplay/game design perspective) is impossible, as only a handful of : employees have experienced working with Bungie in developing the original : trilogy. : I understand you want Halo to be like it used to, but it isn't feasible. We : live in a world where perfection is unobtainable. : Let 343i push the envelope in gaming, you might be pleasantly surprised how : the game plays. Learning to adapt to change is tough, I should know; but : remaining against change can prove to be even more painful. I can understand a new developer wanted to make the series their own after taking it over from its original developer, but at what point do we say that they're just changing things for the sake of change. Sure, even Bungie changed things every game, giving us new mechanics and new enemies to fight, but each Halo game retained that essential Halo formula. The addition, removal, and/or alteration of various things — dual wielding, health packs, fall damage, equipment, armor abilities, the AR, the BR, Engineers, Flood Pure Forms, Enforcers, playable Elite characters, etc., etc., — never really changed that essential Halo formula. I'm a guy who considers game mechanics to be the most essential aspect of a game, and a game will either stand or fall on the merits of its gameplay. Story, setting, art design, and all other non-gameplay elements are secondary. So, how much would a Halo game have to change for it to stop being a Halo game? At what point would it lose its "Halo-ness"? Shooters are a dime a dozen these days, and distinctive game mechanics can easily set them apart from others that adhere to run-of-the-mill cookie cutter archetypes. So, what elements both set Halo apart from its contemporaries and unify all the Halo games together despite their differences? Let's take a look: The Golden Tripod: Originally, it was the triad of guns, grenades, and melees. No other mainstream shooter prior to Halo allowed players to utilize melees and grenades in such a fashion, as they had always required you to formally equip a melee weapon (fists, chainsaw, or whatever) or grenade to use them. It was like that for every shooter from Doom, Quake, and Turok, to GoldenEye 007 and Perfect Dark. But Halo allowed you to bash people with the butt of whatever gun you had equipped and throw grenades with your off hand. Sure, this particular element has been emulated by many other mainstream shooters since 2001 (though some titles like BioShock and Crysis still take an old-school approach to inventory), which does make it a less unique feature than it was 10 years ago, but it was Halo that started it and it remains a quintessential part of Halo's core mechanics. Even the addition of a "fourth leg" to the tripod — first equipment and now armor abilities — hasn't changed that fact. The Two-weapon Limit: Another big change to the genre that was first popularized if not pioneered by Halo was limiting the player to only being able to carry two guns at a time. Older shooters allowed players to carry literally any and all weapon they could find, and the player could eventually acquire half a dozen guns or more. The two-gun limitation forced the player to make certain tactical/strategic choices based on the situation and their preferred playstyle. Do you pair up a shotgun and a sniper rifle, or a pistol and a rocket launcher, or an AR and a BR? Like the Golden Tripod, the two-weapon limit has been integrated into many in not most other shooters of the past decade, which might diminish its novelty but doesn't stop it from being an integral part of Halo's core gameplay. A Regenerating Shield Layer Overlying the Player's Health: Before Halo, shooters usually had one of two ways of approaching how the player takes and repairs damage. In games like Doom and Quake, you had a fixed amount of health which was restored by health packs. You could sometimes find items that increased your maximum health or body armor that reduced the amount of damage you took (and which took damage like health). GoldenEye and Perfect Dark eschewed health packs entirely, so once you took damage to your health that was it; they did offer body armor and shields, respectively, as well. Halo, however, had the player's health permanently overlaid by a shield layer, which could fully regenerate after taking damage. While the series has shifted back and forth between non-regenerating health plus health packs and regenerating health and no health packs, the regenerating shield layer remained the one constant. Few other shooters since have done this. They may have eschewed health packs for regenerating health a la Call of Duty or Gears of War, and some even go more old-school in how they approach player health, but few have overlaid the player's health with a regenerating shield layer. Big, Open, Varied Environments: One of the distinguishing features of Halo's single-player Campaign is the relatively large, open levels, with each stage typically having its own distinct environment, whether that be desert, arctic, forest, and so forth (ODST is an exception for the most part, as it's 90% city streets and skyscrapers). Most other shooters are much more linear and constrained (and quite often heavily scripted) and/or have a much more uniform environment across the majority of the game. An Even Playing Field in Multiplayer: Compared to most other current shooters, Halo takes a very balanced approach to competitive multiplayer, starting players off with the same weapons and abilities in all "regular" gametypes (there are some "gimmick" gametypes that are outliers, including Infection, VIP, and Fiesta). That way, no player starts with an unfair advantage Since 2007, most other popular shooters have gone the route Call of Duty has, introducing a host of weapons, gear, and abilities that must be unlocked by gaining experience points, which are typically obtained by killing enemies or performing certain tasks. This means that a raw recruit will start with only the most basic gear, putting them at a disadvantage against players who have more play time under their belt. When all one has is an M16, a frag grenade, a knife, and no decent kill streak bonuses, you'll have your work cut out when you're facing higher-ranked opponents who are invisible to radar, make no sound, move quicker, can carry more ammo, have advanced weaponry, and can summon fucking jet bombers and attack helicopters to rain hell on you. It ain't half fair. Even when Halo introduced a quasi-class system in Reach via its loadouts, at least everyone in the match had equal access to all loadouts regardless of their rank. These are the ones that stand out most to me and are what define Halo. They are fundamental mechanics that make Halo what it is. While most of these will be retained in Halo 4, at least one of them apparently will not be: a level playing field in multiplayer. 343I is introducing a system that seems very similar to Call of Duty, where the player has to level grind in order to unlock certain gameplay-affecting gear. Imagine if Reach stuck low ranking guys with the equivalent of Invasion Phase 1 loadouts but gave higher-ranked guys access to loadouts more like what you'd find in Phase 2 or 3. It'd be an unbalanced disaster. Yet that's what 343I is intending for Halo 4. That's not the Halo I know. I don't mind new weapons, new enemies, new mechanics, and new aesthetics — classic series like Super Mario Bros. and Mega Man did this all the time —, nor do I necessarily mind borrowing elements from other series, but I do mind when the fundamentals of gameplay that define the Halo experience are thrown out just to engage in follow-the-leader with the likes of Call of Duty and Battlefield. So, I ask you again, at what point do we draw the line. When does Halo stop being Halo. Sure, you can have an FPS set in the Halo-verse with all the characters and so forth, but if it plays more like COD (or Battlefield, or Far Cry, or than Halo, is it really Halo? If you're like me and define a series by its mechanics, the answer would be a resounding "NO!" The apparent elimination of the level playing field in multiplayer is a worrying step in the wrong direction, and it makes the game just that much less like Halo. What's next? Killstreaks? Iron sights? When does it end? When I play Halo, I want to play Halo, not some other FPS that just happens to have Spartans, Forerunners, and the Covenant. You could take COD's gameplay, make the players ODSTs, and set it in a Forerunner environment, but for me, that would be Halo in name only. TL;DR version: There's nothing wrong with trying new things and trying to be different from your predecessor, but leave the fundamentals of gameplay alone. Mechanics are just as important if not more so than the setting, characters, etc., in defining a series.

The Dark Sangheili

Message Index

Present thoughts about the future *long*	Hedgemony	4/11/12 9:44 p.m.
I'm Grim, & this is my favorite post on the forum *NM*	GrimBrother One	4/11/12 9:50 p.m.
Hear hear! *NM*	Das Kalk	4/11/12 9:53 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	4/11/12 10:16 p.m.
Brilliantly well put, mirrors my own thoughts. *NM*	Tiny	4/11/12 10:19 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	stabbim	4/11/12 10:23 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	bluerunner	4/11/12 10:26 p.m.
well put *NM*	kidtsunami	4/11/12 10:29 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	KP	4/11/12 10:31 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	tucsonbatman	4/11/12 10:57 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	DEEP NNN	4/12/12 6:37 a.m.
Just you wait. You're next! :p *NM*	rhubarb	4/12/12 10:57 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	breitzen	4/11/12 10:41 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Frankie	4/12/12 12:21 a.m.
Frankie's mental image of HBO until release	The Lionheart	4/12/12 12:36 a.m.
You dun good kid, great post. *NM*	Pebbles	4/12/12 12:55 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Frankie	4/12/12 12:26 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Quirel	4/12/12 12:46 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Das Kalk	4/12/12 10:52 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Metalingus627	4/12/12 5:00 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	kanbo	4/11/12 10:52 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Vic DeLeon	4/11/12 10:56 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Der Flatulator	4/16/12 9:44 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Der Flatulator	4/16/12 9:49 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	RC Master	4/16/12 10:58 a.m.
We have seen the angst before.	Captain Spark	4/11/12 11:00 p.m.
Agreed	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	4/11/12 11:04 p.m.
Sing it! Truth. *NM*	yakaman	4/11/12 11:11 p.m.
Well put, indeed. *NM*	Leviathan	4/11/12 11:22 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	uberfoop	4/11/12 11:35 p.m.
Re: Change is gouda. *NM*	Hedgemony	4/11/12 11:37 p.m.
Halo 4 LE = Wheel of smoked gouda? *NM*	uberfoop	4/12/12 12:09 a.m.
Thank you again...	GrimBrother One	4/11/12 11:49 p.m.
Re: Thank you again...	Tiny	4/12/12 7:53 a.m.
Why Halo 4 will be a very bad game *Long, IMGs*	Schooly D	4/12/12 12:07 a.m.
Exquisitely well put, Hedge.	The Lionheart	4/12/12 12:23 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Morhek	4/12/12 12:36 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	stabbim	4/12/12 12:48 a.m.
Can a hipster hate hating? Is that possible? *NM*	The Lionheart	4/12/12 12:56 a.m.
I for one, can't wait for E3	Pebbles	4/12/12 1:01 a.m.
Love is the new hate. *NM*	Kalamari	4/12/12 1:25 a.m.
Oh Yeah?	Bones	4/12/12 1:21 a.m.
Hedgemony: Voice of Reason and Love *NM*	thebruce0	4/12/12 1:44 a.m.
I'm finding it harder to express my thoughts...	Phoenix_9286	4/12/12 2:16 a.m.
Re: I'm finding it harder to express my thoughts..	NsU Soldier	4/12/12 5:24 a.m.
Josh Holmes took notice of this on twitter. *NM*	Bryan Newman	4/12/12 2:17 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	BlueNinja	4/12/12 5:36 a.m.
Of course you still have a place here.	The Lionheart	4/12/12 11:45 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	General Vagueness	4/16/12 6:54 p.m.
I don't have favorites, but you're my favorite. *NM*	Louis Wu	4/12/12 6:44 a.m.
Nicely put :) *NM*	Ciarán	4/12/12 6:48 a.m.
Well said. *NM*	Beckx	4/12/12 7:23 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	DEEP NNN	4/12/12 7:37 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	SonofMacPhisto	4/12/12 8:38 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	CaneCutter	4/12/12 8:06 a.m.
Completely Agree (Glad Someone Said It!)	ChrisTheeCrappy	4/12/12 8:57 a.m.
Re: Completely Agree (Glad Someone Said It!)	JDQuackers	4/12/12 12:18 p.m.
i agree	iForge	4/12/12 10:37 a.m.
Finally!	Der Flatulator	4/12/12 10:45 a.m.
Re: Finally!	Der Flatulator	4/12/12 10:54 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Tawpgun	4/12/12 10:58 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Postmortem	4/12/12 10:58 a.m.
Hedge is a Hammer	Impervium	4/12/12 11:08 a.m.
Well met, sir.	dogsounds	4/12/12 12:08 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	padraig08	4/12/12 12:10 p.m.
Best thing I've read on the net in a long while!	LostSpartan987	4/12/12 12:36 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Cody Miller	4/12/12 3:23 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	DEEP NNN	4/12/12 4:03 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Hawaiian Pig	4/12/12 11:30 p.m.
your thoughts on "social"	kidtsunami	4/13/12 2:26 a.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	MacGyver10	4/12/12 3:31 p.m.
You made my day, Hedge	CortanaVII	4/12/12 4:36 p.m.
Amen. *NM*	Lawnmower172	4/12/12 5:16 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	GreyThor	4/12/12 8:51 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Quantum	4/12/12 11:04 p.m.
My thoughts on this situation.	Gravemind	4/13/12 6:31 p.m.
Re: My thoughts on this situation.	Gravemind	4/13/12 6:39 p.m.
Re: My thoughts on this situation.	343winks.	4/14/12 12:19 p.m.
Like you've spoken for me. *Sorta Long*	DrDoctor	4/13/12 11:29 p.m.
Change *slightly-long*	Der Flatulator	4/14/12 8:50 a.m.
Re: Change *slightly-long*	DEEP NNN	4/14/12 9:03 a.m.
It isn't all good.	rhubarb	4/14/12 10:40 a.m.
Re: It isn't all good.	serpx	4/14/12 2:45 p.m.
Re: It isn't all good.	rhubarb	4/14/12 3:29 p.m.
Change for change's sake.	Gravemind	4/14/12 7:11 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Harmanimus	4/14/12 7:59 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Gravemind	4/14/12 8:32 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Cody Miller	4/14/12 10:07 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Leviathan	4/14/12 10:52 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Cody Miller	4/15/12 12:20 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	SonofMacPhisto	4/15/12 9:04 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Leviathan	4/15/12 1:36 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Cody Miller	4/15/12 2:18 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Hawaiian Pig	4/15/12 2:29 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Leviathan	4/15/12 2:33 p.m.
To HP and Levi	rhubarb	4/15/12 3:01 p.m.
Not at all	Leviathan	4/15/12 3:15 p.m.
Re: Not at all	rhubarb	4/15/12 3:27 p.m.
Re: Not at all	Leviathan	4/15/12 3:47 p.m.
Warning: Unintended rant	Metalingus627	4/15/12 5:13 p.m.
Alienation is unavoidable	rhubarb	4/15/12 5:31 p.m.
Re: Alienation is unavoidable	Metalingus627	4/15/12 5:47 p.m.
Because A sucks and B is an egg, obviously.	rhubarb	4/15/12 6:31 p.m.
Re: Because A sucks and B is an egg, obviously.	Metalingus627	4/15/12 7:04 p.m.
My point is...	rhubarb	4/15/12 7:55 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DHalo	4/15/12 8:24 p.m.
Re: My point is...	rhubarb	4/15/12 8:45 p.m.
Re: My point is...	Cody Miller	4/15/12 9:04 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DHalo	4/15/12 9:55 p.m.
Re: My point is...	uberfoop	4/15/12 10:11 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DHalo	4/15/12 10:18 p.m.
Re: My point is...	uberfoop	4/15/12 10:26 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DHalo	4/15/12 11:01 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/16/12 6:46 a.m.
Re: My point is...	RC Master	4/16/12 11:12 a.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/16/12 11:52 a.m.
Re: to add to this	Revenant1988	4/16/12 12:25 p.m.
PirateUnicorns.bungie.org	RC Master	4/16/12 6:23 p.m.
Re: PirateUnicorns.bungie.org	Revenant1988	4/16/12 7:39 p.m.
Re: PirateUnicorns.bungie.org	thebruce0	4/17/12 11:18 a.m.
Re: PirateUnicorns.bungie.org	RC Master	4/17/12 9:11 p.m.
Re: My point is...	RC Master	4/16/12 6:09 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/16/12 7:21 p.m.
Re: My point is...	uberfoop	4/16/12 7:54 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/16/12 8:01 p.m.
Re: My point is...	uberfoop	4/16/12 8:06 p.m.
Re: My point is...	General Vagueness	4/16/12 10:43 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/17/12 7:54 a.m.
Re: My point is...	General Vagueness	4/17/12 10:51 a.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/17/12 11:02 a.m.
Re: My point is...	General Vagueness	4/17/12 12:37 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/17/12 1:32 p.m.
Re: My point is...	RC Master	4/17/12 8:33 p.m.
Re: My point is...	DEEP NNN	4/17/12 10:43 p.m.
Re: My point is...	Metalingus627	4/16/12 2:52 p.m.
Re: My point is...	uberfoop	4/16/12 3:08 p.m.
Re: My point is...	Metalingus627	4/16/12 10:18 p.m.
Re: My point is...	Gravemind	4/16/12 3:17 p.m.
Re: My point is...	Quirel	4/16/12 6:17 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	SonGoharotto	4/14/12 11:29 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Hawaiian Pig	4/15/12 12:53 a.m.
I have my moments *NM*	SonGoharotto	4/15/12 8:08 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	343winks.	4/15/12 3:55 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	RC Master	4/15/12 10:32 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	Hedgemony	4/15/12 12:30 p.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	343winks.	4/16/12 4:50 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	343winks.	4/16/12 4:45 a.m.
I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Louis Wu	4/15/12 8:31 a.m.
Just playing Devil's advocate here...	SonGoharotto	4/15/12 9:23 a.m.
Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here...	Louis Wu	4/15/12 9:43 a.m.
Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here...	davidfuchs	4/15/12 9:53 a.m.
Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here...	SonGoharotto	4/15/12 11:30 a.m.
Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here...	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	4/15/12 12:13 p.m.
Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here...	General Vagueness	4/16/12 7:05 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Gravemind	4/15/12 12:38 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Louis Wu	4/15/12 12:48 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Cody Miller	4/15/12 1:04 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Leviathan	4/15/12 1:47 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Cody Miller	4/15/12 2:16 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Leviathan	4/15/12 2:27 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Hawaiian Pig	4/15/12 2:28 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Hawaiian Pig	4/15/12 2:31 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Leviathan	4/15/12 2:35 p.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	Hawaiian Pig	4/15/12 2:54 p.m.
To clarify	Leviathan	4/15/12 3:01 p.m.
Re: To clarify	rhubarb	4/15/12 3:07 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Schooly D	4/15/12 3:40 p.m.
The question everyone is dancing around	rhubarb	4/15/12 3:48 p.m.
This has nothing to do with CoD.	uberfoop	4/15/12 4:41 p.m.
Re: This has nothing to do with CoD.	rhubarb	4/15/12 5:07 p.m.
Re: This has nothing to do with CoD.	uberfoop	4/15/12 5:47 p.m.
Re: This has nothing to do with CoD.	rhubarb	4/15/12 6:04 p.m.
Re: The question everyone is dancing around	Cody Miller	4/15/12 5:20 p.m.
Re: The question everyone is dancing around	rhubarb	4/15/12 5:56 p.m.
Re: The question everyone is dancing around	Cody Miller	4/15/12 6:13 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/15/12 4:01 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Cody Miller	4/15/12 5:14 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/15/12 10:10 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Cody Miller	4/15/12 11:15 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/15/12 11:49 p.m.
leviathan's opinion makes mine redundant *NM*	kidtsunami	4/16/12 12:13 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Cody Miller	4/16/12 12:39 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/16/12 2:08 a.m.
Re: To clarify	343winks.	4/16/12 6:04 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Louis Wu	4/16/12 8:28 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Revenant1988	4/16/12 10:11 a.m.
...........what is this	Hawaiian Pig	4/16/12 12:33 p.m.
Re: ...........what is this	Louis Wu	4/16/12 12:53 p.m.
Re: ...........what is this	Hawaiian Pig	4/16/12 1:14 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Hawaiian Pig	4/16/12 12:46 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/16/12 2:11 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Cody Miller	4/16/12 2:13 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/16/12 2:30 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Cody Miller	4/16/12 3:18 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/16/12 3:58 p.m.
This conversation has gone in an awkward direction	uberfoop	4/16/12 4:11 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Leviathan	4/16/12 4:32 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Miguel Chavez	4/16/12 4:35 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Leviathan	4/16/12 4:44 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	4/16/12 9:58 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Hawaiian Pig	4/16/12 5:36 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	343winks.	4/17/12 5:58 a.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Leviathan	4/17/12 2:02 p.m.
Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc	Beckx	4/17/12 2:22 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Louis Wu	4/16/12 3:00 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Miguel Chavez	4/16/12 3:28 p.m.
Re: To clarify	343winks.	4/17/12 5:24 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Louis Wu	4/17/12 7:07 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Cody Miller	4/17/12 12:13 p.m.
Re: To clarify	General Vagueness	4/17/12 12:50 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Hawaiian Pig	4/17/12 10:59 p.m.
Re: To clarify	uberfoop	4/18/12 12:08 a.m.
Re: To clarify	Miguel Chavez	4/17/12 1:21 p.m.
GODWINNED *NM*	Cody Miller	4/17/12 1:58 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Leviathan	4/17/12 2:19 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Miguel Chavez	4/17/12 3:51 p.m.
That's a lousy safe-word, Mig. *NM*	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	4/17/12 4:56 p.m.
Re: To clarify	Hawaiian Pig	4/17/12 11:00 p.m.
Re: To clarify	General Vagueness	4/17/12 10:45 a.m.
Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little.	uberfoop	4/15/12 4:52 p.m.
Change in Halo= Good	BWOLoneWolf	4/16/12 7:17 a.m.
Re: Change in Halo= Good	Metalingus627	4/16/12 10:48 a.m.
Re: Change in Halo= Good	Metalingus627	4/16/12 10:48 a.m.
Now here's what I'm wondering	SonGoharotto	4/15/12 1:25 p.m.
A tale of Spartan Points.	NsU Soldier	4/15/12 5:44 p.m.
The Spartan Phone is ringing!	SonGoharotto	4/15/12 9:19 p.m.
What if the Spartan phones... rang? *NM*	Louis Wu	4/16/12 8:31 a.m.
Re: A tale of Spartan Points.	General Vagueness	4/16/12 2:40 a.m.
Re: Change for change's sake.	uberfoop	4/14/12 9:20 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	Kermit	4/15/12 8:37 p.m.
Re: Present thoughts about the future *long*	General Vagueness	4/16/12 12:45 a.m.
When threads get this long...	Tiny	4/16/12 4:08 p.m.
Re: When threads get this long...	uberfoop	4/16/12 4:13 p.m.
Re: When threads get this long...	Schooly D	4/16/12 4:26 p.m.
Re: When threads get this long...	Miguel Chavez	4/16/12 4:34 p.m.
This.	Urban Reflex	4/16/12 4:53 p.m.
Re: This.	Quirel	4/16/12 6:06 p.m.
Re: When threads get this long...	Tiny	4/16/12 10:36 p.m.
This thread is too long. Here, I'll make it longer	RC Master	4/16/12 6:51 p.m.
Re: This thread is too long. Here, I'll make it lo	Miguel Chavez	4/16/12 7:22 p.m.
Coke tastes better from a can.	Vandle Valsher	4/16/12 7:57 p.m.
Re: Coke tastes better from a can.	Miguel Chavez	4/16/12 8:40 p.m.
Re: Coke tastes better from a can.	Metalingus627	4/16/12 10:12 p.m.
Re: Coke tastes better from a can.	Gravemind	4/16/12 11:28 p.m.