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Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.
Posted By: AngelicLionheart <angeliclionheart@gmail.com>	Date: 9/10/06 10:27 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Verily. One last chance for MS. (Recon#54) : Before I make a personal choice of my own, I keep thinking of two words. : Star Trek. : Another immersive universe with tons and tons of loyal fans. Arguably more : than Halo. If you look at it cumulatively over time, definitely more. : Huge, dedicated fan-base, filled with creative people. Many of those creative : people want to create, but they want to create something of their own, but : that is tied to what they love. : I have bookcases of merchandise, books, manuals, etc. Some of it licensed, : some fan-made. Personally, I think that it both helped and hurt the : property. It definitely helped because it encouraged people to think that : Star Trek "belonged" to them. Sure, Gene Roddenberry (and : company) created it and made it happen, but the fans took it into their : hearts, their minds, and their lives. : But what else happened? IMO, that much "love" also damages the : object of affection. Fan-made stories that were more about the fans than : the original story, hundreds of published novels that while they : "fleshed out" the story, they also took it places that the : creators never wanted it to go. People ended up painting characters and : the stories into corners that crippled the next teller of the story. : But it was understandable. The original series was canceled, there were no : films, there was nothing. So the fans weren't getting anything from the : creators, they wanted, they needed to hear more stories, to get more out : of the universe. So they did it themselves. : And this was a television show. This was before digital creations made : emulating the original almost easy (not quite, but almost). : A friend of mine once said that time travel was "the worst thing that : ever happened to science fiction". I disagree. To me, the worst thing : to happen to it is when marketing, merchandising, and the widespread : creation of "spin-offs" by 3rd parties detract and distract from : the original vision and story. : It definitely happened to Star Trek. Can Halo survive the adoration and : hunger of its fans to both consume and create more and more of it? : One difference between Halo and Star Trek is that Halo is not in : "stasis". It's not been canceled and we're all left to our own : devices to hear more of the story. The Halo story is still being told, by : the creators. They're working on it for us right now. The only vacuum that : we perceive is that there isn't something new for us here and now. : So to me, the question really is, "Who owns Halo?". I can see that : many fans feel that their love for the game, their immersion in the story, : their fascination for the universe all gives them a measure of ownership. : Many feel that they understand the story, characters, and the whole : enchilada well enough that they can "take it for a spin" and : share their ideas, visions, and creations with others. : I'm not criticizing the desire to create. It's a remarkable and amazing thing : to witness. But do any of us really know this story? Sure, we know what : we've been shown, we have theories to fill in blanks, but do any of us : know the Tru7h? Who here has seen the Halo Bible? Who here can say that : their pet plot development wouldn't conflict with the real blueprint? : Who owns Halo? Who do we want to tell us the story? How many different : visions of it can we accept? : Now, it is possible to take the view that the MS legal team is only : interested in the almighty dollar and they are simply protecting their : investment and their potential earnings. Fair enough. : But aren't they also attempting to keep the road ahead clear for the creative : folks at Bungie to decide what gets told next, how it gets told, and what : medium is used for the telling? : Would any fan want to have been the person who has done something that : prevents Bungie from using their property as they intended? Even if it was : in the slightest way? Now they are generous people, they admire and : respect other creative entities. I am not saying that they are adversarial : or that they should be. But the risk is there. : But who owns Halo? Do I? Because if I do, I would like to see what they do : with it before any one else uses it to make their own mark. Maybe I am : selfish. But I think that it is at least courteous to ASK them for : permission. To tell them, "this is what I have planned, this is where : I am taking the story, do you mind if I do?" and to wait until they : answer with a yes, or they are finished telling the story that they set : out to tell. : Do I begrudge mod-makers, fan-fic authors, artists and other creators? : Absolutely not. I have the utmost respect for their talents, abilities, : and dedication to that which we ALL love. : For those creative folks that want to make something about Halo that is a : game... which also happens to be Bungie's particular vehicle for telling : their stories, I would only ask.... : Who owns Halo? Most definitely, the answer to "Who owns Halo?" is "Microsoft." Though, the answer to "Who made Halo?" is "Bungie Studios." While I agree letting fans have the authority to take the reins of your franchise into unexplored realms has the definite potential (in my opinion, the likelihood) for problems, that is a separate issue. Because with things like published fan novels, the fan is granted an amount of authority/weight/say-so. HaloGen neither had, nor sought, any degree of authority. I can't speak for their team, but the story probably wasn't even their main deal. I think the gameplay itself was. Either way, making a modification so that you can play an RTS that involves someone's take on the Haloverse, even though you know it's just a fan-project, would be kind of neat (assuming that it was done well, which, while I have all the confidence in the world in the HaloGen team, I can't say that I KNOW that it would have captured my interest enough to make me keep playing it after my first time with it -- I can only say that I believe that it would have). This is not the same situation as the Star Trek novels or the Star Wars novels/comics -- this is just making things that are very explicitly labelled "FAN CREATIONS: NOT THE REAL DEAL, FOLKS." If it doesn't say "Bungie" before you play the game, then, chances are, it wasn't made by them. *removes the mantle of Captain Obvious from his head* Thus, that being a legitimate reason for such a defense of the IP is proven invalid. If the fans claimed any amount of authority on the matter, that is one thing. But when it's just what HaloGen was, that is quite another. A good argument, though. :)

Message Index

Just awful, Halogen	Dracon1k	9/8/06 10:15 p.m.
That sucks. Hard,	Ename Nep	9/8/06 10:18 p.m.
After all that work? Dude. That sucks. *NM*	CowOnTheNews	9/8/06 10:18 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Dracon1k	9/8/06 10:29 p.m.
*long inhale*	NartFOpc	9/8/06 10:32 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	eiii	9/8/06 10:55 p.m.
Wait a second...	Saint	9/8/06 10:58 p.m.
Re: Wait a second...	Socrates	9/8/06 11:07 p.m.
Re: Wait a second...	Usul	9/9/06 10:24 a.m.
Something to chew on	Silent Hunter	9/9/06 11:45 a.m.
Re: Something to chew on	BlueTyphoid	9/9/06 9:20 p.m.
Cherished Martyrs	AngelicLionheart	9/8/06 11:31 p.m.
Re: Cherished Martyrs	Dispraiser	9/8/06 11:56 p.m.
Can someone enlighten me?	serpx	9/9/06 12:36 a.m.
Re: Can someone enlighten me?	Dracon1k	9/9/06 2:24 a.m.
Re: Can someone enlighten me?	HipboyScott	9/9/06 3:12 a.m.
Re: Can someone enlighten me?	Silent Hunter	9/9/06 7:13 a.m.
That's Probably Exactly It...	Mintz	9/9/06 1:46 p.m.
Re: Cherished Martyrs	Hawaiian Pig	9/9/06 3:08 a.m.
The irony is...	Frost	9/9/06 12:38 a.m.
Re: The irony is...	Cocopjojo	9/9/06 12:49 a.m.
Bungie is Microsoft *NM*	Pinkuh	9/9/06 2:49 a.m.
But are they?	HipboyScott	9/9/06 3:32 a.m.
Re: But are they?	BlueTyphoid	9/9/06 9:30 p.m.
Not exactly	Jillybean	9/9/06 5:32 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Chryton	9/9/06 3:00 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Frost	9/9/06 3:43 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Slimby	9/9/06 4:10 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Marcus117	9/9/06 6:43 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Sc4Freak (From Halogen)	9/9/06 7:39 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	swelnet	9/9/06 8:07 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	vlad3163	9/9/06 2:59 p.m.
Request for Comment from Bungie...	Socrates	9/9/06 9:20 a.m.
Re: Request for Comment from Bungie...	Silent Hunter	9/9/06 9:41 a.m.
What Bungie would say	AngelicLionheart	9/9/06 9:43 a.m.
Re: Request for Comment from Bungie...	SketchFactor	9/9/06 5:23 p.m.
Rumour Debunking	58	9/9/06 12:26 p.m.
Re: Rumour Debunking	Document	10/2/06 10:13 p.m.
So...what's actually stopping you?	AfroRyan	9/9/06 12:38 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	AfroRyan	9/9/06 12:46 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/9/06 1:07 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	Shishka	9/9/06 1:57 p.m.
Simple solution!	Saint	9/9/06 3:53 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	AfroRyan	9/9/06 6:45 p.m.
WTF is wrong with you? *NM*	Usul	9/10/06 6:36 p.m.
WTF is wrong with YOU!?	AfroRyan	9/10/06 11:08 p.m.
Re: WTF is wrong with YOU!?	Louis Wu	9/11/06 4:49 a.m.
Re: WTF is wrong with YOU!?	Usul	9/11/06 6:43 p.m.
Halo UT mod still active!?	Mikemc	9/18/06 7:27 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	Peptuck	9/9/06 3:01 p.m.
Halogen = Thieves	Frost	9/9/06 2:28 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Shishka	9/9/06 2:31 p.m.
Bummer.	SketchFactor	9/9/06 4:54 p.m.
Re: Bummer.	Frost	9/9/06 5:46 p.m.
What more could be said	Bry	9/9/06 6:36 p.m.
After three years.	Michael Finn	9/11/06 4:08 p.m.
Re: After three years.	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/11/06 8:25 p.m.
Re: After three years.	Black Guard	9/12/06 6:27 a.m.
Re: After three years.	MinorThreat	9/12/06 5:33 p.m.
Re: After three years.	MinorThreat	9/11/06 10:01 p.m.
Re: After three years.	Bry	9/12/06 5:08 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Larrion	9/28/06 2:31 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Vlad3163	9/28/06 8:46 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Recon#54	9/9/06 2:52 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	vlad3163	9/9/06 3:06 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Recon#54	9/9/06 3:14 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	SketchFactor	9/9/06 5:15 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	WhiteRaBbit	9/9/06 7:24 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Bry	9/9/06 7:47 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Frost	9/9/06 3:33 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Recon#54	9/9/06 3:56 p.m.
Leaving the keys in	Frost	9/9/06 4:39 p.m.
Re: Leaving the keys in	RocketMoose	9/9/06 4:42 p.m.
Re: Leaving the keys in	Recon#54	9/9/06 5:20 p.m.
Re: Leaving the keys in	SketchFactor	9/9/06 5:22 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Louis Wu	9/9/06 4:51 p.m.
So Bungie isn't behind this?	jdogmoney	9/9/06 5:06 p.m.
Re: So Bungie isn't behind this?	Jillybean	9/9/06 5:35 p.m.
Re: So Bungie isn't behind this?	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	9/9/06 7:21 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Major Silva	9/9/06 8:38 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Louis Wu	9/10/06 9:17 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Major Silva	9/10/06 9:30 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/10/06 3:50 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Narcogen	9/9/06 10:57 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Louis Wu	9/10/06 9:29 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Jillybean	9/10/06 10:12 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	UrsusArctos	9/10/06 10:26 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	9/10/06 11:35 a.m.
Getting a little OT	Jillybean	9/10/06 12:37 p.m.
Re: Getting a little OT	UrsusArctos	9/11/06 8:11 a.m.
Question	Endbringer	9/10/06 12:05 p.m.
Re: Question	Bry	9/10/06 1:27 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	KP	9/10/06 3:35 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Recon#54	9/10/06 9:32 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	BJB	9/9/06 4:13 p.m.
Bungie must making a Halo RTS next.	DarkSim	9/9/06 4:53 p.m.
Re: Bungie must making a Halo RTS next.	Shishka	9/9/06 7:28 p.m.
Re: Bungie must making a Halo RTS next.	jdogmoney	9/9/06 7:40 p.m.
Re: Bungie must making a Halo RTS next.	Recon#54	9/9/06 7:58 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	X42-C1	9/9/06 6:53 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen *NM*	DP	9/9/06 9:12 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	BlueTyphoid	9/9/06 9:35 p.m.
The Future	SomethingClever	9/10/06 12:44 a.m.
Query	Walshicus	9/10/06 7:09 a.m.
Re: Query	Louis Wu	9/10/06 9:57 a.m.
Re: Query	Walshicus	9/10/06 10:58 a.m.
crap	Miguel Chavez	9/10/06 11:17 a.m.
Re: Query	Miguel Chavez	9/10/06 11:15 a.m.
Re: Query	Recon#54	9/10/06 11:27 a.m.
Re: Query	Narcogen	9/10/06 11:25 p.m.
Re: Query	AngelicLionheart	9/10/06 7:21 p.m.
Re: The Future	Louis Wu	9/10/06 9:50 a.m.
Re: The Future	Narcogen	9/10/06 10:11 a.m.
Re: The Future	SomethingClever	9/10/06 1:36 p.m.
Re: The Future	Louis Wu	9/10/06 2:59 p.m.
Re: The Future	Blck	9/10/06 3:04 p.m.
It certainly makes you think twice, doesn't it...	BJB	9/10/06 3:18 p.m.
Verily.	Saint	9/10/06 3:10 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	AngelicLionheart	9/10/06 8:11 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	Recon#54	9/10/06 8:58 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	AngelicLionheart	9/10/06 10:27 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	Recon#54	9/10/06 11:00 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	AngelicLionheart	9/10/06 11:54 p.m.
Microsfot E-mail	Slith	9/11/06 9:45 a.m.
Re: The Future	SomethingClever	9/10/06 4:18 p.m.
Re: The Future	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/10/06 4:31 p.m.
Re: The Future	SomethingClever	9/10/06 4:41 p.m.
Re: The Future	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/10/06 4:46 p.m.
Re: The Future	Recon#54	9/10/06 4:54 p.m.
Re: The Future	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/10/06 4:57 p.m.
Re: The Future	Saint	9/10/06 6:49 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Masta Chef	9/10/06 9:10 p.m.