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|Grunts = Conscript army in a caste system|
|Posted By: Wado SG||Date: 2/26/05 7:18 a.m.|
In Response To: The Grunts and their rebellion (Graeme)
: Hi gang, new to the HALO world, long time fan of the Bungie stuff. Long live
: I was thinking the other day, while reading through the story page, and
You make quite the generalization. Of Grunts I have seen fearless Spec Ops Grunts as well as cowardly Grunts. What is the rule and what is the exception?
Being cowardly might be a survival trait for Grunts in the Covenant caste system. Surely to speak out of line could mean certain death as a means to make an example out of Grunts that don't follow orders. But if Grunts learn to be cowardly and lazy, then not much is expected of them and maybe they can slip away unnoticed by the higher ups.
I get the feeling the Covenant does not employ soldiers on a volunteer basis, the thought of a conscript army comes to mind. This could mean that the Grunts on the front lines might be quite "green". Don't be mistaken here, I far as I can tell, Grunts don't run from mere humans, they are running from a Spartan. Not many "Green" troops would stick around to fight a "devil", a being that could very well have been raised to mythical levels in exagerated stories.
In fact, to face a Spartan, even in a group and to kill the Spartan would frankly make the Elites look bad. A bit of politics here. Say you are a squad of Grunts and you even get lucky and kill a Spartan. Do you tell anyone of this feat or just keep quiet about it. Firstly, if the higher ups find out you just might get promoted and that means watching your back, because if you are promoted in the Covenant, there is a good chance that someone else got demoted and suddenly you have some new found enemies who want their old job back. And even worse, say you get the reputation as "Devil Slayer", well do you really expect Elites and Brutes to bow down to you, chances are that some of them aren't all that honorable after all and they just might arrange to meet the mighty "Devil Slayer" on the seedier side of the airlocks. In all, for a Grunt to do something heroic could be the surest method of self-destruction.
I'm not trying to say that Grunts are much more brave and intelligent than we perceive them to be, all I am saying is look at the context, the culture, that they live in and you might see reasons for their perceived behavior that are external, learned responses and they are not instinctively cowards or idiots.
Don't underestimate a good Grunt.
: See, in thinking about the Prophets, and their many ways of
That may be so, but I believe a more obvious reason is that they need to have separate uniforms, or they might get killed by friendly fire.
The other point is the whole theme of Halo 2 on the Covenant could be said to be revolving around a society duped into progressing faster than its moral values and ethics can handle. At first I thought it was the opposite, that Covenant society was held back so that the Prophets could keep their place as the leaders. However, now I see the opposite is true. The Prophets are leading the society to progress so quickly that all cultural identity is being lost as well as individualism and creativity. All of society is thought of as pawns and robots in the massive machine of the Great Journey.
This is a case of the theme, old gets overwhelmed by the new, the new rules, but the old ways come back because they are needed to save everyone from their own self destruction. The uniforms of the Grunts look older, simplier, not the fancy Covenant issue but perhaps the old uniforms, before the Covenant. A statement so much a part of the Arbiter wearing his "unique" armor. Is it unique or just really old/traditional design from long days gone?
We are not witnessing a civil war in the Covenant or a cultural revolution, what we are witnessing is an unbalanced society, built on lies falling apart and the only way that the races like the Grunts will have to survive through this is trust in the old ways. Balance must be achieved, and it will be one way or another.
: Imagine, if you will, a swarm of...let's say 10 grunts. Grunts who are
Yes, I agree, but like I said, you only need a few incidents of Grunts making Elites or other races look bad, and then if a few Aliens in Black show up and make a huge example out of those Grunts and their families... well better to be cowardly and thought to be lazy than to risk the death of your comrades and family because you disrespected someone higher up in the hierarchy by being too good at what you do, making them look bad.
: Once, they held a position not unlike that of the Elites--a powerful warrior
You don't need drugs to defeat numbers or anything like that. It is a fact that bombs beat bullets, or in this case plasma pistols. Numbers are overrated when one bomb can destroy an entire homeworld. Survival is everything... don't rock the boat.
This is more like the cold war, each side is capable of destroying the other, but the only outcome is mutual destruction. Perhaps the only way to get around this is through internal collapse of one side and a swift removal of their leaders from power and he reinstatement of a much more popular leadership.
The Grunts will probably never have the numbers to overthrow by force. They don't need numbers as much as they need a meme, an idea to spread through all of the Covenant. Something like the bond built between the Elites and the Grunts and Hunters in Halo 2.
: Just a thought that ran through my head the other day. So what do you
It is possible what you say.
|The Grunts and their rebellion||Graeme||2/21/05 4:50 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||mooniejohnson||2/21/05 5:14 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Cuda II||2/21/05 8:07 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||keeper of the holy light||2/21/05 8:08 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Walshicus||2/21/05 8:46 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Sir Jivealot||2/21/05 11:49 a.m.|
|Difference between a fearless grunt and bigfoot?||Kraken||2/21/05 9:04 a.m.|
|Re: Difference between a fearless grunt and bigfoo||Dr.Strangelove||2/21/05 9:45 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||selmack||2/21/05 10:29 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||deathpig||2/21/05 11:02 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||selmack||2/21/05 11:22 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Sir Jivealot||2/21/05 11:51 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Walshicus||2/21/05 12:14 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||dude1||2/21/05 12:28 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Hikaru-119||2/21/05 12:42 p.m.|
|Damage in the books||EarthScorpion||2/21/05 3:13 p.m.|
|Re: Damage in the books||Hikaru-119||2/21/05 3:32 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Peptuck||2/21/05 3:16 p.m.|
|the grunt rebellion||zander||2/23/05 9:03 p.m.|
|Re: the grunt rebellion||Hikaru-119||2/23/05 9:04 p.m.|
|Re: the grunt rebellion||Virus_232||2/23/05 9:09 p.m.|
|Re: the grunt rebellion||Jillybean||2/24/05 8:28 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||blitz_raven||2/25/05 1:37 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Sep7imus [subnova]||2/25/05 1:58 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Devil Mingy||2/25/05 3:02 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Michael B||2/21/05 4:07 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||58||2/21/05 4:37 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||58||2/21/05 4:31 p.m.|
|Grunt's are cool!!!||H3WH01SNT||2/21/05 4:49 p.m.|
|Re: Grunt's are cool!!!||Harpu||2/21/05 6:29 p.m.|
|meanwhile, back at Bungie..:)||Bigjooj||2/22/05 1:07 a.m.|
|Grunty thirst!||Morgalad||2/22/05 6:26 a.m.|
|Re: Grunty thirst!||Harpu||2/22/05 3:24 p.m.|
|Re: Grunty thirst!||Dillo||2/28/05 4:17 p.m.|
|Re: Grunty thirst or grunty dependence...||JanusSyndicate||2/28/05 5:12 p.m.|
|Re: Grunty thirst or grunty dependence...||Dillo||2/28/05 5:37 p.m.|
|Re: Grunty thirst or grunty dependence...||JanusSyndicate||2/28/05 9:53 p.m.|
|Re: Grunty thirst!||Graeme||2/22/05 5:46 p.m.|
|The Arbiter of Grunt-dom||Wavehawk||2/23/05 12:56 a.m.|
|Re: The Arbiter of Grunt-dom||Harpu||2/23/05 3:29 p.m.|
|Re: The Arbiter of Grunt-dom||Hyperdeath||2/23/05 10:53 p.m.|
|Re: The Arbiter of Grunt-dom||Wavehawk||2/23/05 11:13 p.m.|
|Re: The Arbiter of Grunt-dom||Harpu||2/24/05 11:32 a.m.|
|Re: The Arbiter of Grunt-dom||GryphonOsiris||2/24/05 1:17 p.m.|
|Re: The Arbiter of Grunt-dom||Harpu||2/24/05 3:30 p.m.|
|Damage in books-- Nylund exxagerates||MarineCorps117||2/24/05 6:10 p.m.|
|Re: Damage in books-- Nylund exxagerates||Graeme||2/24/05 6:12 p.m.|
|Re: The Arbiter of Grunt-dom||Stinger503||2/25/05 10:12 p.m.|
|Re: meanwhile, back at Bungie..:) *slightly OT*||Dillo||2/28/05 3:51 p.m.|
|Re: meanwhile, back at Bungie..:) *slightly OT*||Jillybean||2/28/05 4:01 p.m.|
|Re: meanwhile, back at Bungie..:) *slightly OT*||Dillo||2/28/05 4:12 p.m.|
|Re: meanwhile, back at Bungie..:) *slightly OT*||Jillybean||2/28/05 4:38 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||freakctc79||2/24/05 6:44 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Harpu||2/24/05 7:42 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||MarineCorps117||2/25/05 10:40 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Harpu||2/25/05 12:08 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Hyperdeath||2/25/05 2:54 p.m.|
|An obvious solution ;)||Sly_Avatar||2/25/05 6:23 p.m.|
|Re: An obvious solution ;)||Harpu||2/25/05 8:37 p.m.|
|Grunts = Conscript army in a caste system||Wado SG||2/26/05 7:18 a.m.|
|Killing easy grunts makes us keep playing!||7Geeks_ravns||2/26/05 7:25 a.m.|
|Re: Grunts = Conscript army in a caste system||Sniping Steve||2/26/05 8:42 a.m.|
|Re: Grunts = Conscript army in a caste system||Hikaru-119||2/26/05 8:47 a.m.|
|Re: Grunts = Conscript army in a caste system||Sniping Steve||2/26/05 5:56 p.m.|
|Re: Grunts = Conscript army in a caste system||Peptuck||2/28/05 12:55 p.m.|
|Re: Grunts = Conscript army in a caste system||Gomez27||2/28/05 1:08 p.m.|
|i smell fan fic.... *NM*||ONI_operative_343||2/26/05 10:47 a.m.|
|Re: Grunts = Conscript army in a caste system||dude1||2/26/05 11:05 a.m.|
|Re: Grunts = Conscript army in a caste system||Dave The Slushy||2/27/05 2:21 a.m.|
|Re: Grunts = Conscript army in a caste system||Sly_Avatar||2/26/05 12:57 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Master quich||2/28/05 6:41 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Gomez27||2/28/05 10:28 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||58||2/28/05 10:33 a.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Gomez27||2/28/05 1:05 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Ozzis||2/28/05 4:10 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||58||2/28/05 4:15 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Series III (MetalSilver)||2/28/05 4:23 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||58||2/28/05 4:27 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||Series III (MetalSilver)||2/28/05 7:26 p.m.|
|Re: The Grunts and their rebellion||58||2/28/05 7:38 p.m.|
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