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War, Religion, & Politics
Posted By: axmanDate: 3/30/04 6:21 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Theory on the origins of the war (Steve Ollett)

:: If you ask me, the prophets really arent prophets, my theory is that the
:: 'prophets' are actually just political figures that are manipulating the
:: covanent beliefs for power, kind of like the muslim leaders.

: Or ANY political government setup for that matter... (let's not single
: out any one religion or country)...

: Afterall, one country's Patriotism could be defined as Ultra-Nationalism or
: Fanaticism - It just depends on who is wanting to take the moral high
: ground when making the comparison...

i've been waiting for someone to connect the Covenant with Islam... I'm not sure it's really applicable to it directly. but the idea does fit well with the Arab-Muslim governments that point at the US as the "Great Satan" to deflect the frustration and hatred of their citizens away from themselves so that they can stay in power. The caste system does seem a bit more like Hinduism

does "patriotism / nationalism" require the attacking of other nations just because they're another nation? it doesn't just depend on who grabs the "moral high ground" for the comparison. look at japan in the 1930s- its actions were not just patriotic- they were racist & imperialistic as well. Could they say *truthfully*, "oh, we were just being patriotic" in the way someone that puts "proud to be an American" on his car bumper can? i doubt it.

back to halo...
If ONI or human pirates really did start the war, then the Covenant response could be characterized as "patriotic". The characterization of humanity as lower lifeforms would then be understandable- get the soldiers in the trenches to fight by de-humanizing (de-intelligencizing?) the enemy. it's been done by probably every gov at war (how to motivate the soldiers to fight the enemy if they think the other guy ain't so bad?) however... i'm not so sure about this.

i don't remember any evidence in any of the books that indicates that there was any other reason for the war from the Covenant's point of view than religious fanaticism. [*if i remember correctly*] i think it has been noted that the covenant didn't fire on the humans originally until they tried to identify themselves. also, somewhere it says something along the lines of, [again, if i remember correctly], that "a name implies legitimacy, and the humans were not legitimate. so they must be exterminated". Giving a name to something is a way to show dominion over it. By naming ourselves before the Covenant could do so (or rejecting their name for us) is to rebel against their dominion and set ourselves up as our own masters. The Covenant's subsequent response ["your destruction is the will of the gods"] does seem rather reminiscent of historical Islam (which spread by the sword). and the way the lower "castes" are kept in line by those higher (elites reassigning grunts around at will, prophets beheading elites who don't perform) along with the goal of the complete destruction of the enemy (no negotiating) reminds me of modern wahhabic* Islam.


*think bin Laden. he doesn't want to "change" the US, he wants to destroy it and return Islamic culture to its "glory days" of ~1450-1800AD when it was more advanced than the "Christian West". [or Hamas that wants to end Israel's existence]

Message Index


Theory on the origins of the warAin Soph Aur 3/23/04 1:46 a.m.
     Re: Theory on the origins of the warNickLee808 3/23/04 2:39 a.m.
           Re: Theory on the origins of the warShishka 3/23/04 3:27 a.m.
                 Re: Theory on the origins of the warWintermute @ work 3/23/04 7:04 a.m.
                       Workin on the brainmatt41000 3/31/04 12:22 a.m.
           Re: Theory on the origins of the warAin Soph Aur 3/23/04 3:49 a.m.
     i think halo 2 will answer this *NM*fludblud 3/23/04 5:28 a.m.
     Babylon 5: Earth - Minbari War Anyone?Steve Ollett 3/23/04 7:29 a.m.
           Re: Babylon 5: Earth - Minbari War Anyone?Ain Soph Aur 3/23/04 2:38 p.m.
     Re: meta response to - Theory on the originsSep7imus [subnova] 3/23/04 7:59 a.m.
     Re: Theory on the origins of the warthunderhawk555 3/23/04 9:21 a.m.
           Re: Theory on the origins of the warSteve Ollett 3/23/04 9:36 a.m.
                 War, Religion, & Politicsaxman 3/30/04 6:21 p.m.
                       War, Religion, & Politics are not allowed here...Kyrceck 3/30/04 7:06 p.m.
                             Re: War, Religion, & Politics are not allowed heremeleeman 3/30/04 7:12 p.m.
                                   StoppittJillybean 3/31/04 4:42 a.m.
                       Re: Patriotism *RANT*Steve Ollett 3/31/04 1:56 a.m.
                             ::sigh::Louis Wu 3/31/04 7:33 a.m.
     Re: Theory on the origins of the wargrimman 3/23/04 9:56 a.m.
           Re: Theory on the origins of the warSteve Ollett 3/23/04 10:25 a.m.
                 Re: Theory on the origins of the warthunderhawk555 3/23/04 11:21 a.m.
                       Re: Theory on the origins of the war *FS Spoilers*why isnt my hitman47 name working???? 3/23/04 3:40 p.m.
     Re: Theory on the origins of the warGallagher 3/23/04 4:03 p.m.

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