The Prudent Application of Time Travel


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The Prudent Application of Time Travel

Posted By: Forrest of B.org Date: 2/9/05 6:37 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Eternal Volunteers: BabylonVII (Forrest of B.org)

This whole thread got me thinking about another topic, and I think I shall continue to think out loud here. WARNING: MAJOR PLOT SPOILERS FOLLOW.
When writing Eternal, Ch4 in particular, I very conveniently ignored and wrote around the whole fact that YOU'VE [almost] ALWAYS GOT SOMEONE ON YOUR SIDE WITH A TIME MACHINE. Anything that goes wrong... why even worry? Why not just go back and fix it? And really who cares anyway? Branching timelines allow everyone to have their own personal universe... what do you care what someone makes of their own reality, so long as you can stay in this one, or go and make another if it pleases you? (I believe Hathor even makes such a statement on The Manipulated Dead).
I'm considering, for the majority of the game at least, where Leela/S'bhuth is your primary companion, a nice little character-development reason for why she wouldn't just beam you back in time willy-nilly.
As will be revealed about 12 levels from now on "Meta Omega", the goal of the "Jjaro" - those who exist outside time - is to find a "causal tautology", a self-causing chain of events on which to base their observational definition of "reality" (the same way that we base logical reality on rational tautologies, a.k.a. definitions). Those who cannot find such an bases to retain an abstracted view of existence dive back into some particular timeline and struggle desperately to have some semblance of certainty and control, becoming what the S'pht called W'rkncacnter, inevitably either destroying that timeline or carreening off on their own path of whim, far from the causal tautology off which that timeline split.
I'm considering revising the prologue (which nobody ever did a Volunteers post on, BTW), to have S'bhuth's madness be not some "insane plan" to kamikaze K'lia into the Pfhor homeworld (which, really, should have helped the war effort quite a bit), but instead, his rampancy (still induced by Durandal's S'pht) awakened him to the possibilities his Cybernetic Junction offered, and instead of using it only as ordained by the Jjaro, he used it to see the world Outside... and like the W'rkncacnter, it drove him completely mad.
What is real? History is manipulable, every timeline is equally valid... how do you validate any observations when all of existence can be changed at a whim? And whose whim, then - if nothing is any more real than anything, then what ultimate purpose is there? What basis do you have to found rational choices upon? These same types of questions drive humans to war when the fundamental foundations of our percieved reality (i.e. our religious-type beliefs) are threatened. Thus too, I imagine S'bhuth would become violent, and the S'pht collective with him, and ultimately be destroyed at it's core by those around it. Thus in a far more literal way, S'bhuth "joined the chaos he sought to evade".
When Leela joined with the remains of that future, mad S'bhuth, and left via the Cybernetic Junction to explore the future and the Outside - it's always seems like a cop-out to me that she was "asked to return" or some junk. So instead, I think I will change it such that she left for the Outside and, realizing the maddening effects it could have on one, and terrified by the W'rkncacnter she witnessed in the future of that timeline, returned here to this timeline and is acting now only to secure the reality that she "knows" to be true, that being her attempt to regain certainty and control of her reality. That is why she pursues Hathor across time, and other than that, and eventually returning to her "present" in the timeframe of Chapter 2, she has no intent to use the Junction until she reaches some enlightened state where she can truly understand reality from the Outside.
So that covers chapters 3 and 4. In chapter 2, Leela has no Junction access until the end of the chapter, at which point she uses it - and Tycho's only Junction access is you, and you're resisting him. In chapter 1, nobody but Hathor has Junction access, and she's afraid to use it unless she absolutely has to, cause it gives her those horrible nightmares. And in Chapter 5, neither the Watcher nor Hathor have access to a Junction, so that problem is solved.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Eternal Volunteers: BabylonVII blake37 2/9/05 12:26 p.m.

Re: Eternal Volunteers: BabylonVII Steve Levinson 2/9/05 2:44 p.m.

Re: Eternal Volunteers: BabylonVII Forrest of B.org 2/9/05 3:58 p.m.

Re: Eternal Volunteers: BabylonVII Steve Levinson 2/9/05 4:34 p.m.

Re: Eternal Volunteers: BabylonVII Forrest of B.org 2/9/05 5:21 p.m.

The Prudent Application of Time Travel Forrest of B.org 2/9/05 6:37 p.m.

Re: The Prudent Application of Time Travel Steve Levinson 2/9/05 7:00 p.m.

Re: The Prudent Application of Time Travel Forrest of B.org 2/9/05 7:46 p.m.

Re: The Prudent Application of Time Travel Blayne 2/9/05 8:11 p.m.

Re: The Prudent Application of Time Travel Forrest of B.org 2/9/05 9:03 p.m.

Re: Eternal Volunteers: BabylonVII blake37 2/9/05 5:12 p.m.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: This whole thread got me thinking about another topic, and I think I shall : continue to think out loud here. WARNING: MAJOR PLOT SPOILERS FOLLOW. : When writing Eternal, Ch4 in particular, I very conveniently ignored and : wrote around the whole fact that YOU'VE [almost] ALWAYS GOT SOMEONE ON : YOUR SIDE WITH A TIME MACHINE. Anything that goes wrong... why even worry? : Why not just go back and fix it? And really who cares anyway? Branching : timelines allow everyone to have their own personal universe... what do : you care what someone makes of their own reality, so long as you can stay : in this one, or go and make another if it pleases you? (I believe Hathor : even makes such a statement on The Manipulated Dead). : I'm considering, for the majority of the game at least, where Leela/S'bhuth : is your primary companion, a nice little character-development reason for : why she wouldn't just beam you back in time willy-nilly. : As will be revealed about 12 levels from now on "Meta Omega", the : goal of the "Jjaro" - those who exist outside time - is to find : a "causal tautology", a self-causing chain of events on which to : base their observational definition of "reality" (the same way : that we base logical reality on rational tautologies, a.k.a. definitions). : Those who cannot find such an bases to retain an abstracted view of : existence dive back into some particular timeline and struggle desperately : to have some semblance of certainty and control, becoming what the S'pht : called W'rkncacnter, inevitably either destroying that timeline or : carreening off on their own path of whim, far from the causal tautology : off which that timeline split. : I'm considering revising the prologue (which nobody ever did a Volunteers : post on, BTW), to have S'bhuth's madness be not some "insane : plan" to kamikaze K'lia into the Pfhor homeworld (which, really, : should have helped the war effort quite a bit), but instead, his rampancy : (still induced by Durandal's S'pht) awakened him to the possibilities his : Cybernetic Junction offered, and instead of using it only as ordained by : the Jjaro, he used it to see the world Outside... and like the : W'rkncacnter, it drove him completely mad. : What is real? History is manipulable, every timeline is equally valid... how : do you validate any observations when all of existence can be changed at a : whim? And whose whim, then - if nothing is any more real than anything, : then what ultimate purpose is there? What basis do you have to found : rational choices upon? These same types of questions drive humans to war : when the fundamental foundations of our percieved reality (i.e. our : religious-type beliefs) are threatened. Thus too, I imagine S'bhuth would : become violent, and the S'pht collective with him, and ultimately be : destroyed at it's core by those around it. Thus in a far more literal way, : S'bhuth "joined the chaos he sought to evade". : When Leela joined with the remains of that future, mad S'bhuth, and left via : the Cybernetic Junction to explore the future and the Outside - it's : always seems like a cop-out to me that she was "asked to return" : or some junk. So instead, I think I will change it such that she left for : the Outside and, realizing the maddening effects it could have on one, and : terrified by the W'rkncacnter she witnessed in the future of that : timeline, returned here to this timeline and is acting now only to secure : the reality that she "knows" to be true, that being her attempt : to regain certainty and control of her reality. That is why she pursues : Hathor across time, and other than that, and eventually returning to her : "present" in the timeframe of Chapter 2, she has no intent to : use the Junction until she reaches some enlightened state where she can : truly understand reality from the Outside. : So that covers chapters 3 and 4. In chapter 2, Leela has no Junction access : until the end of the chapter, at which point she uses it - and Tycho's : only Junction access is you, and you're resisting him. In chapter 1, : nobody but Hathor has Junction access, and she's afraid to use it unless : she absolutely has to, cause it gives her those horrible nightmares. And : in Chapter 5, neither the Watcher nor Hathor have access to a Junction, so : that problem is solved.

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Eternal Volunteers: BabylonVII	blake37	2/9/05 12:26 p.m.
Re: Eternal Volunteers: BabylonVII	Steve Levinson	2/9/05 2:44 p.m.
Re: Eternal Volunteers: BabylonVII	Forrest of B.org	2/9/05 3:58 p.m.
Re: Eternal Volunteers: BabylonVII	Steve Levinson	2/9/05 4:34 p.m.
Re: Eternal Volunteers: BabylonVII	Forrest of B.org	2/9/05 5:21 p.m.
The Prudent Application of Time Travel	Forrest of B.org	2/9/05 6:37 p.m.
Re: The Prudent Application of Time Travel	Steve Levinson	2/9/05 7:00 p.m.
Re: The Prudent Application of Time Travel	Forrest of B.org	2/9/05 7:46 p.m.
Re: The Prudent Application of Time Travel	Blayne	2/9/05 8:11 p.m.
Re: The Prudent Application of Time Travel	Forrest of B.org	2/9/05 9:03 p.m.
Re: Eternal Volunteers: BabylonVII	blake37	2/9/05 5:12 p.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : This whole thread got me thinking about another topic, and I think I shall : continue to think out loud here. WARNING: MAJOR PLOT SPOILERS FOLLOW. : When writing Eternal, Ch4 in particular, I very conveniently ignored and : wrote around the whole fact that YOU'VE [almost] ALWAYS GOT SOMEONE ON : YOUR SIDE WITH A TIME MACHINE. Anything that goes wrong... why even worry? : Why not just go back and fix it? And really who cares anyway? Branching : timelines allow everyone to have their own personal universe... what do : you care what someone makes of their own reality, so long as you can stay : in this one, or go and make another if it pleases you? (I believe Hathor : even makes such a statement on The Manipulated Dead). : I'm considering, for the majority of the game at least, where Leela/S'bhuth : is your primary companion, a nice little character-development reason for : why she wouldn't just beam you back in time willy-nilly. : As will be revealed about 12 levels from now on "Meta Omega", the : goal of the "Jjaro" - those who exist outside time - is to find : a "causal tautology", a self-causing chain of events on which to : base their observational definition of "reality" (the same way : that we base logical reality on rational tautologies, a.k.a. definitions). : Those who cannot find such an bases to retain an abstracted view of : existence dive back into some particular timeline and struggle desperately : to have some semblance of certainty and control, becoming what the S'pht : called W'rkncacnter, inevitably either destroying that timeline or : carreening off on their own path of whim, far from the causal tautology : off which that timeline split. : I'm considering revising the prologue (which nobody ever did a Volunteers : post on, BTW), to have S'bhuth's madness be not some "insane : plan" to kamikaze K'lia into the Pfhor homeworld (which, really, : should have helped the war effort quite a bit), but instead, his rampancy : (still induced by Durandal's S'pht) awakened him to the possibilities his : Cybernetic Junction offered, and instead of using it only as ordained by : the Jjaro, he used it to see the world Outside... and like the : W'rkncacnter, it drove him completely mad. : What is real? History is manipulable, every timeline is equally valid... how : do you validate any observations when all of existence can be changed at a : whim? And whose whim, then - if nothing is any more real than anything, : then what ultimate purpose is there? What basis do you have to found : rational choices upon? These same types of questions drive humans to war : when the fundamental foundations of our percieved reality (i.e. our : religious-type beliefs) are threatened. Thus too, I imagine S'bhuth would : become violent, and the S'pht collective with him, and ultimately be : destroyed at it's core by those around it. Thus in a far more literal way, : S'bhuth "joined the chaos he sought to evade". : When Leela joined with the remains of that future, mad S'bhuth, and left via : the Cybernetic Junction to explore the future and the Outside - it's : always seems like a cop-out to me that she was "asked to return" : or some junk. So instead, I think I will change it such that she left for : the Outside and, realizing the maddening effects it could have on one, and : terrified by the W'rkncacnter she witnessed in the future of that : timeline, returned here to this timeline and is acting now only to secure : the reality that she "knows" to be true, that being her attempt : to regain certainty and control of her reality. That is why she pursues : Hathor across time, and other than that, and eventually returning to her : "present" in the timeframe of Chapter 2, she has no intent to : use the Junction until she reaches some enlightened state where she can : truly understand reality from the Outside. : So that covers chapters 3 and 4. In chapter 2, Leela has no Junction access : until the end of the chapter, at which point she uses it - and Tycho's : only Junction access is you, and you're resisting him. In chapter 1, : nobody but Hathor has Junction access, and she's afraid to use it unless : she absolutely has to, cause it gives her those horrible nightmares. And : in Chapter 5, neither the Watcher nor Hathor have access to a Junction, so : that problem is solved.
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