Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3


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Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3

Posted By: Philtron Date: 12/25/20 9:22 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3 (Godot)

: Most of those are Thoth with the Thoth logo. Since we are interacting with
: him at this stage in the game like we did in M2 it makes sense to see
: these more frequently.
We'll get to this. But, if it is Thoth, that just creates additional questions like why is he activated, who activated him, and why do we activate again/even more in Strange Aeons. But that's for a different thread.
: I know this is an underlying premise of your analysis. However for me this is
: the complete antithesis of what a 1st person shooter (FPS) is. Marathon is
: not a movie or book, it is a FPS where you the player are the main
: character. Your actions dictate what the main character does within the
: confines of the game engine and level design. You choose if the main
: character smashes a panel or reads a terminal and you experience those
: consequences as the main character.
It doesn't matter that Marathon isn't a movie or a book. All artistic mediums share some narrative and artistic devices, techniques, and methods. You can use the analysis of painting to inform your understanding of poetry, you can use the analysis of film to inform your understanding of music, and so on. Making comparisons to other mediums is a completely valid method of broadening our understanding of what a work of art/entertainment is doing, when relevant.
In the case of an individual work doing something its medium hasn't done before, like a video game doing something games haven't done prior, then we would need to make analogies to other mediums that have done the things this video game is doing, to broaden our understanding of what it is, or could be, trying to accomplish.
And everyone who plays games intuitively understands that we are not actually, totally controlling the character. We don't need to come up with theories as to why the Security Officer chose to defend the Marathon using only his fists; we understand that the player's choice to go fists-only is an action separate from the character and separate from the narrative of the game. We don't need to come up with theories as to how the Security Officer knew where to go despite not reading any terminals explaining what his mission is; we understand that the player's choice to skip a terminal they read on a previous playthrough is separate from any decisions the fictional character makes within the narrative of the game.
We all understand these things intuitively: there are some actions that are just the players and do not reflect the actions or decisions of the character in the story. We are controlling an avatar representing that character, we are not controlling the character himself. So, we can imagine a Venn diagram of A) the player's actions in the game, B) the character's actions within the story, and AB) the overlap where they're one and the same.
We all understand this intuitively, that's why we don't bother arguing about what's canon within the minutia of gameplay.
The only unusual thing about my analysis of Infinity is suggesting that certain confusing parts of the game make a lot more sense if Double Aught were deliberately leaning into the unique aspect of video games that I mentioned above to give the player information the main character does not receive.
: If DA were trying to experiment with the FPS concept they sadly failed. And I
: am not aware of any other game developer who has tried to do similar. More
: knowledgeable people than me can chime in here.
Double Aught were clearly trying to do something different and new. Whatever it was, I agree they failed, and I think Greg K. agreed in an interview that they failed. After all, whatever perspective you take, it will not hold up throughout the entirety of Infinity.
However, if Double Aught did want to provide players with non-diegetic moments, then the easiest way to convey that in this preexisting game engine would be through terminal messages and level design, the two things that would be easiest to change and iterate. Which are the two things that are the biggest departure from the previous games.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3 Philtron 12/20/20 10:05 a.m.

Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3 Godot 12/23/20 4:16 a.m.

Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3 Philtron 12/23/20 6:14 p.m.

Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3 Philtron 12/23/20 7:07 p.m.

Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3 Godot 12/23/20 11:23 p.m.

Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3 Philtron 12/25/20 9:22 a.m.

Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3 pfhore 12/25/20 8:01 p.m.

Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3 Philtron 12/26/20 9:53 a.m.

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Pre-2004 Posts

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: We'll get to this. But, if it is Thoth, that just creates additional : questions like why is he activated, who activated him, and why do we : activate again/even more in Strange Aeons. But that's for a different : thread. : It doesn't matter that Marathon isn't a movie or a book. All artistic mediums : share some narrative and artistic devices, techniques, and methods. You : can use the analysis of painting to inform your understanding of poetry, : you can use the analysis of film to inform your understanding of music, : and so on. Making comparisons to other mediums is a completely valid : method of broadening our understanding of what a work of art/entertainment : is doing, when relevant. : In the case of an individual work doing something its medium hasn't done : before, like a video game doing something games haven't done prior, then : we would need to make analogies to other mediums that have done the : things this video game is doing, to broaden our understanding of what it : is, or could be, trying to accomplish. : And everyone who plays games intuitively understands that we are not : actually, totally controlling the character. We don't need to come up with : theories as to why the Security Officer chose to defend the Marathon using : only his fists; we understand that the player's choice to go fists-only is : an action separate from the character and separate from the narrative of : the game. We don't need to come up with theories as to how the Security : Officer knew where to go despite not reading any terminals explaining what : his mission is; we understand that the player's choice to skip a terminal : they read on a previous playthrough is separate from any decisions the : fictional character makes within the narrative of the game. : We all understand these things intuitively: there are some actions that are : just the players and do not reflect the actions or decisions of the : character in the story. We are controlling an avatar representing that : character, we are not controlling the character himself. So, we can : imagine a Venn diagram of A) the player's actions in the game, B) the : character's actions within the story, and AB) the overlap where they're : one and the same. : We all understand this intuitively, that's why we don't bother arguing about : what's canon within the minutia of gameplay. : The only unusual thing about my analysis of Infinity is suggesting that : certain confusing parts of the game make a lot more sense if Double Aught : were deliberately leaning into the unique aspect of video games that I : mentioned above to give the player information the main character does not : receive. : Double Aught were clearly trying to do something different and new. Whatever : it was, I agree they failed, and I think Greg K. agreed in an interview : that they failed. After all, whatever perspective you take, it will not : hold up throughout the entirety of Infinity. : However, if Double Aught did want to provide players with non-diegetic : moments, then the easiest way to convey that in this preexisting game : engine would be through terminal messages and level design, the two things : that would be easiest to change and iterate. Which are the two things that : are the biggest departure from the previous games.

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Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3	Philtron	12/20/20 10:05 a.m.
Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3	Godot	12/23/20 4:16 a.m.
Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3	Philtron	12/23/20 6:14 p.m.
Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3	Philtron	12/23/20 7:07 p.m.
Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3	Godot	12/23/20 11:23 p.m.
Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3	Philtron	12/25/20 9:22 a.m.
Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3	pfhore	12/25/20 8:01 p.m.
Re: Infinity: the Story: Chapt 3	Philtron	12/26/20 9:53 a.m.



	Your Name:
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	Message: : We'll get to this. But, if it is Thoth, that just creates additional : questions like why is he activated, who activated him, and why do we : activate again/even more in Strange Aeons. But that's for a different : thread. : It doesn't matter that Marathon isn't a movie or a book. All artistic mediums : share some narrative and artistic devices, techniques, and methods. You : can use the analysis of painting to inform your understanding of poetry, : you can use the analysis of film to inform your understanding of music, : and so on. Making comparisons to other mediums is a completely valid : method of broadening our understanding of what a work of art/entertainment : is doing, when relevant. : In the case of an individual work doing something its medium hasn't done : before, like a video game doing something games haven't done prior, then : we would need to make analogies to other mediums that have done the : things this video game is doing, to broaden our understanding of what it : is, or could be, trying to accomplish. : And everyone who plays games intuitively understands that we are not : actually, totally controlling the character. We don't need to come up with : theories as to why the Security Officer chose to defend the Marathon using : only his fists; we understand that the player's choice to go fists-only is : an action separate from the character and separate from the narrative of : the game. We don't need to come up with theories as to how the Security : Officer knew where to go despite not reading any terminals explaining what : his mission is; we understand that the player's choice to skip a terminal : they read on a previous playthrough is separate from any decisions the : fictional character makes within the narrative of the game. : We all understand these things intuitively: there are some actions that are : just the players and do not reflect the actions or decisions of the : character in the story. We are controlling an avatar representing that : character, we are not controlling the character himself. So, we can : imagine a Venn diagram of A) the player's actions in the game, B) the : character's actions within the story, and AB) the overlap where they're : one and the same. : We all understand this intuitively, that's why we don't bother arguing about : what's canon within the minutia of gameplay. : The only unusual thing about my analysis of Infinity is suggesting that : certain confusing parts of the game make a lot more sense if Double Aught : were deliberately leaning into the unique aspect of video games that I : mentioned above to give the player information the main character does not : receive. : Double Aught were clearly trying to do something different and new. Whatever : it was, I agree they failed, and I think Greg K. agreed in an interview : that they failed. After all, whatever perspective you take, it will not : hold up throughout the entirety of Infinity. : However, if Double Aught did want to provide players with non-diegetic : moments, then the easiest way to convey that in this preexisting game : engine would be through terminal messages and level design, the two things : that would be easiest to change and iterate. Which are the two things that : are the biggest departure from the previous games.
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