I disagree on many points





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I disagree on many points

Posted By: uberfoop <atkinso2@seattleu.edu> Date: 5/11/11 10:36 p.m.
In Response To: Why retcons don't bother me anymore (Cody Miller)

Well, for starters, I'm not sure I agree about the problematicness of the examples you laid forth.
Ren & Stimpy took place in a universe where discontinuity was expected. Since there was no regular continuity, it was actually internally consistant in that discontinuity.
While GV evidently disagrees, I've always found the explanation that Obi Wan was an unreliable source to be completely plausible and actually kind of neato. Despite knowing for a while that the original intent had probably been in the other direction, I've never really considered the reveal a retcon by any means, since the "retconned" fact was never set in stone by a source that was clearly intended to be reliable to the viewer.
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On a general, systemic note:
One of the advantages of a consistent universe is that the storyteller can take advantage of speculation and wonder to support the narrative more effectively than one that is inconsistent. If continuity is dropped, and narratively-reliable details can be overwritten, speculation becomes futile, and a useful tool is lost.
Note that this is a tool that is very extensively used in the original Halo trilogy, most notably in the first and second games. And regardless of the expanded universe, from a games-only standpoint, the Haloverse kept this ability right up until Reach came out.
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On the subject of specific retcons, I don't consider them as small as you do. Yes, the factual details are usually not that much to reconcile, but the implied and symbolic details conflict badly with Halo 1. What bothers me the most is the effect that the apparant UNSC resilience has on Halo 1, so I'll elaborate.
The Halo 1 manual set up a scenario in which humanity was in a bad way, at a significant disadvatage, and had very little conventional military strength to fight back. Most of the assets necessary for their last-ditch plan had been wrecked by a surprise attack, which also took out a huge chunk of what little standing conventional strength the UNSC had left, and mankind's biggest colony. Every plan they had seems to have been foiled. Now, humanity is desperate and, for most UNSC forces, totally hopeless. At best, some hope that maybe the PoA will successfully distract some of the Covenant from their murder rampage and buy humanity a little more time, maybe, if we're really lucky.
This is what enables much of Halo 1's sense of desperation. The storytelling in its fullest depends on its success in being convincing that what happened at Alpha Halo had potential to have repercussions, not just in the sense of the Flood, but also in the sense of the Human-Covenant War. This is one of the main reasons that the games' reknowned Act 2 is so awesome, and why 343GS is so potent in tearing it all down; in light of what has transpired, fighting through the Covenant legions and taking that control room is quite important.
Reach completely pulverizes the set-up. Despite the apparent ability of ships to be all over the planet in very short timeframes and destroy each other rapidly, UNSC conventional forces fought a raging battle for two whole froodlenutzskying weeks (which is in the neighborhood of 30 times longer than it takes most conventional, pitched battles to end, but the UNSC is apparently really resilient). And after the games' second act, when the planet is supposedly not doing so well, every single strategic goal you set out to meet is a success. Save several ships of civilians and hook back up with your squad? Check. Shut off some comm jammers for some reason? Check. Break into what's now a Covenant fortress, get to some important intel, and carry it across a raging warzone to a UNSC ship that the UNSC is apparently still competantly fighting the Covenant away from? Check. The Covenant ain't stopping you; the UNSC is so awesome that nothing short of a cubic trap from the RTB Gods could bring down the mighty defenders of Reach! Sure, the planet fell, but the Covenant seemingly got their butts kicked making it happen, and it's surprising that they were able to do it at all in light of the awesome awesomeness of the UNSC defenders.
Yeah, the events at Alpha Halo are still clearly important, but they're not as well emphasized and punctuated by the events at Reach as they used to be.
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Suggesting that retcons are irrelevant is ridiculous in a fictitious universe where some level of continuity is assumed such that certain major stories in the universe use thematic implications from other major events in that universe; if one story needs for a given event to be a sudden, painful, shocking thing with certain implications, and it winds up nearly being the opposite in a new story, then it has a negative effect on the older story, since a piece is now effectively missing or subverted. The only way to salvage what does work is to ignore what doesn't, though that's unfortunately much more difficult when "what doesn't" isn't some distant reboot but rather something on the same immediate line, sold as being importantly and immediately tied into the relevant material.
Even when the factual questions of continuity aren't that hard to resolve, these sorts of thematic issues are a huge deal. Bungie used to recognize that, too; recall how, in the level Armory, Bungie was careful to hang a lampshade on Johnson's presence at Alpha Halo and survival, which was important for people predominantly games-focused, since the whole "Dust and Echoes" thing was a fairly awe-inspiring moment in the previous game.

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Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Cody Miller	5/11/11 6:11 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Frankie	5/11/11 6:16 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Cody Miller	5/11/11 6:20 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Phoenix_9286	5/11/11 6:54 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Quirel	5/11/11 11:21 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Phoenix_9286	5/12/11 12:19 a.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Lurono	5/12/11 11:21 a.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	General Vagueness	5/12/11 1:09 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Quirel	5/12/11 1:20 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	General Vagueness	5/12/11 3:24 p.m.
i somewhat agree	nomis78	5/16/11 4:21 p.m.
oh and marty on music NM	nomis78	5/16/11 4:59 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	padraig08	5/11/11 6:22 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Azo 'Galvat	5/11/11 9:54 p.m.
tl;dr: "I grew up, and I like Ren & Stimpy" NM	Pkmnrulz240	5/11/11 6:24 p.m.
Are those really retcons?	General Battuta	5/11/11 6:25 p.m.
Re: Are those really retcons?	Cody Miller	5/11/11 6:31 p.m.
Re: Are those really retcons?	General Battuta	5/11/11 6:44 p.m.
Re: No, they're not.	Ranger15S	5/11/11 7:15 p.m.
Re: Are those really retcons?	General Vagueness	5/11/11 9:15 p.m.
Re: Are those really retcons?	General Battuta	5/11/11 10:12 p.m.
Nope, it isn't.	Narcogen	5/12/11 2:13 a.m.
Retcons are Art NM	NartFOpc	5/11/11 6:26 p.m.
Ren and Stimpy why you should not care about canon NM	ZaneZavin	5/11/11 6:31 p.m.
Thank God NM	RC Master	5/11/11 6:47 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	5/11/11 6:58 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	General Vagueness	5/11/11 9:25 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	DarkS7G	5/11/11 7:36 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	5/11/11 9:32 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	padraig08	5/11/11 10:08 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	5/12/11 6:07 a.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	DEEP NNN	5/12/11 6:30 a.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	5/12/11 11:01 a.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	DEEP NNN	5/12/11 11:57 a.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	5/12/11 2:54 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Revenant1988	5/12/11 7:41 a.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	DMFanella	5/12/11 8:46 a.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	Revenant1988	5/12/11 9:08 a.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	padraig08	5/12/11 1:41 p.m.
Re: Why retcons don't bother me anymore	DMFanella	5/12/11 8:37 a.m.