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Re: They lied about humanity, but believe the rest
Posted By: deadguy71 <>Date: 8/20/08 3:22 p.m.

In Response To: Re: They lied about humanity, but believe the rest (scarab)

: And what did Truth mean by his statement to the Arbiter on the Ark,
: "Your kind never believed in the promise of the sacred rings."

: From CH it seems that the Elites may have been more devout than the Prophets.
: So why did he say something that was probably untrue?

He was trying to convince the Arbiter that his path was wrong, and by saying "your kind never beleived", he was trying to establish that the Arbiter would need work to "convert" to the truth of the rings. He doesn't want to die.

Don't forget that the prophets truly beleived in the great journey. This was based on what is really "The great abandonment", where the forerunners left the galaxy. In Contact Harvest there are mentions of how the covenant's beleif was that by using forerunner technology, especially the rings themselves, they would journey from this galaxy as Gods.. by following in the footsteps of the forerunners.

It would seem that a great amount of this information was gleaned from Medicant Bias, who was certainly at least partially rampant, housed in the dreadnought that made up a large chunk of the Covenant base of operations.

It was misunderstood information.. M.Bias probably said that the forerunners activated the rings and left the galaxy. The prophets, already worshipping the forerunners as gods at the time, termed this leaving to be the "Great Journey" where by following in their footsteps, they would become Gods themselves. I seemed to recall Contact Harvest saying that the oracle hadn't spoken much in a long time.. it probably never bothered to correct their assumptions as it returned it's focus inwards (customary rampancy).

: And Truth's motives for genocide seemed to be based on fellowship with the
: rest of the Covenant, a belief in the Covenant. What would he have against
: the Elites in particular?

: Why did he betray them? What did he hope to gain?

He wanted to buy time to activate the rings and fulfill his zealot prophecies. Some of the elites had already discovered Guilty Spark (the oracle), and were told what the rings were really for, what they did, and more importantly, their purpose.. (not to create gods, but to kill food for the flood). These elites were the Heretics that the Arbiter was sent after in Halo 2. Per the prophets, elites were deemed "contaminated" by this information and were not to be trusted anymore. They had to put the Brutes in-place as protectors, rather than the Elite.

Perhaps they underestimated the Elite's reaction to this, or they might have considered it to be inevitable either way, and needed the Brutes in position as a safety buffer. One thing about the brutes, like in Halo 2 when the gravity hammer was used to collect the "oracle".. Tarterus didn't give a damn about oracles or elites, or how he might be lied to.. he had a job to do, and unquestioning pride in his position.

: Was he worried about the Elites discovering that Humans were Forerunners?
: Worried about the Elites in particular?

The Humans aren't forerunners, the ones you're referring to are reclaimers. The Forerunners are human, but the humans aren't Forerunners. (the rest is explained above)

: Would the fanatical Elites have turned on him if they knew the truth? Would
: they react any worse than the other Covenant species?

Elites were in a position of being direct protection to the prophets, sharply intelligent, and agressive. If they learned that the Prophets were purposely lying to them, there'd be hell to pay, and nothing between them and the prophets to stop them.

: The Elites were closest to being their equals in the Covenant. Maybe they
: would be harder to keep in the dark once the rings were found and
: activation loomed. (Activation requires a Reclaimer)

This raises a point that I wondered about too.. How were the prophets going to play this off? When I saw it happening, I realized that Brutes were too dumb to question the role of a human in the proceedings, and that noone else would have been present to witness it anyways.

: How did he feel about betraying the Elites?

: If he cared about the union then he must have cared about the Elites. He left
: the Portal open so that others could follow. That was NOT a selfish act.
: It would have been safer for him to close it. He is probably not
: absolutely selfish.

: Did he hope that some Elites would follow on the Great Journey once the Rings
: were lit?

: We know that Elites gave their lives to earn their Journey. I assume that
: this means that the Covenant believed that you didn't have to be alive at
: the times the rings fire in order to take the Great Journey.

: Maybe he hoped that the murdered Elites would join him and forgive his,
: necessary, treachery.

Or perhaps he felt that being seen as "the good guy" would help him in the long run. Per Contact Harvest, the covenant beleif was that the dead would make the great journey. In talking with downed friends they talked about seeing them at the end of the great journey. Similar to getting to heaven, but perhaps the "great Journey" meant that you got there without actually dying. Or it suggests that perhaps everyone knew the rings would kill everyone, but that the faithful would be rewarded.

If either version were true, I don't think any old grudges were going to matter in the least at that point.

The fear of allowing the rest of the covenant to know about the Reclaimers being human was a reference to being told that some would be left behind, which flew in the face of their beleifs. That'd be worse than revealing that the discovery of the Rings bringing death to them.

Message Index


Odd question, any help would be appreciated.John_117 8/15/08 10:32 a.m.
     Re: Odd question, any help would be appreciated.Urk 8/15/08 10:41 a.m.
           Re: Odd question, any help would be appreciated.ManKitten 8/15/08 11:21 a.m.
                 Re: Odd question, any help would be appreciated.UNSC_Trooper 8/15/08 11:27 a.m.
                       Re: Odd question, any help would be appreciated.onebitrocket 8/15/08 2:42 p.m.
                             Re: Odd question, any help would be appreciated.UNSC_Trooper 8/15/08 3:35 p.m.
     Re: Odd question, any help would be appreciated.UNSC_Trooper 8/15/08 11:33 a.m.
     Re: Odd question, any help would be appreciated.sharpsniper99 8/15/08 11:48 a.m.
           Re: Odd question, any help would be appreciated.Grimlock 8/15/08 12:09 p.m.
                 They lied about humanity, but believe the restyakaman 8/15/08 12:20 p.m.
                       shards...vshields ash 8/15/08 1:54 p.m.
                             Re: shards...?yakaman 8/15/08 3:41 p.m.
                                   cortys momvshields ash 8/15/08 5:50 p.m.
                                         Re: cortys momRoss Mills 8/17/08 9:33 a.m.
                                               Re: cortys momvshields ash 8/17/08 6:02 p.m.
                                                     Re: cortys momrhubarb 8/17/08 6:57 p.m.
                                                     Re: cortys momRoss Mills 8/18/08 1:28 a.m.
                                                           Re: cortys mom :)vshields ash 8/18/08 10:11 a.m.
                       Re: They lied about humanity, but believe the restscarab 8/15/08 4:53 p.m.
                             Re: They lied about humanity, but believe the restscarab 8/15/08 5:35 p.m.
                                   Re: They lied about humanity, but believe the restCthulhu117 8/15/08 9:59 p.m.
                                   Re: They lied about humanity, but believe the restdeadguy71 8/20/08 3:22 p.m.
     Re: Odd question, any help would be appreciated.Peptuck 8/16/08 1:05 a.m.

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