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Re: Note about the Flood
Posted By: UrsusArctos <zloty5@netscape.net>Date: 9/13/06 7:58 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Note about the Flood (Narcogen)

: While Spark himself might deny it, I think that he's certainly been
: programmed to treat the situation with the kind of gravitas befitting a
: religious ceremony. It would go a long way, perhaps, towards explaining
: how Forerunner worship began among Covenant races.

Hmm...you may have hit the nail on the head. After all, the Arbiter immediates recognizes Guilty Spark for what he is, and Regret condemns the oracles as worthless. The Arbiter has heard of Oracles enough to recognize one immediately, and Regret knows them well enough to get sick of Penitent Tangent as soon as he starts talking.(He was along with him with Gravemind for a long time, but I imagine that Gravemind wouldn't let them converse with each other or argue...especially since he has listened long enough)

: There's no hard evidence yet of Spark lying, so it may just be that he can't
: or won't. From the perspective of telling the story, I think it'd be kind
: of cheap for Bungie to back out on things 343 has said so far on the basis
: of him having motivation to lie.

He certainly may not be motivated to lie outright, because a lie would thoroughly mess up all his credibility, and that'd give trouble to a whole lot of story fans trying to make sense of this mess. Tell you the truth, sparky didn't lie, he just didn't tell all the truth.

: Spark called the Halo not just a weapon, but a "weapon of last
: resort". A weapon to be used when no other weapon could be used. It
: stops the spread of the Flood by eliminating their hosts-- ALL other
: sentient life in the galaxy-- and also has facilities for storage and
: study of Flood, which was "essential for their survival as a
: species" according to Spark.

But Halo is not a weapon of last resort! Remember what Cortana said, "This is not a cudgel, you barbarian!" , and all of Spark's lines concerning Halo's research facilities, and the fact that they can indeed be visited later. The Halos are meant as flood-eradication units all throughout their existence, and all aspects of the ring are dedicated to the study and eradication of the flood. The weapon is a part of the ring, a function that isn't used unless the flood are let loose and there's nothing else to stop them from leaving the ring and going on a galaxy-wide romp. The flood on Delta practically owned the ring. The flood on Alpha had been let loose, and were repairing a starship. "The flood are hard at work repairing your ship. The parasitic nature of the flood belies their intelligence." Halo's weapon needed to be fired only as a last resort to stop the flood, but the rings themselves are not weapons of last resort. That's a very important distinction.

: Salient facts here: 1) Survival of the Flood as a species was important to
: the Forerunner. 2) Survival of EVERY OTHER sentient life form in the
: galaxy apparently not as important, or else we'd see labs devoted to their
: study and no weapon of last resort that kills everything but the intended
: target.

There's no doubt that such mechanisms to preserve sentient life exist. But are the monitors fully aware of these mechanisms, or of their nature? Remember what Guilty Spark said when he barged into Cortana's data arrays, "Ridiculous! That you'd imbue a warship's AI with such a wealth of knowledge? Weren't you worried that it may have been captured, or destroyed?" We now see that one monitor (2401PT) was captured by Gravemind, and perhaps partially under his control as well. If Gravemind had access to the whatever data PT had, any galactic romps(As could be expected at this stage of the crisis) would target the very mechanisms intended to preserve life from the Halo blast, nullifying everything the forerunner sought to prevent.

But Guilty Spark might have unearthed something in Cortana's data arrays that he wasn't let to know. He's indignant when he sees Cortana in Halo 04's core, and seeing that he found "A history of all our lost time", I'd say he learnt how all that lost time came to be, how life survived the Halo firing, and what mechanisms existed to prevent it. Knowledge of the Ark was there all along, and Guilty Spark found it in Cortana's data arrays, transplanted from the core. He mistook it for Cortana's own data most likely because he expected humanity to know how to survive the Halo blast although he himself didn't have the answer. That's why he's so shocked about the Master Chief's ignorance.

: Clearly there are some missing pieces here, as on its face the situation does
: not seem logical. Either unseen mechanisms are at work preserving the
: galaxy's other life forms, or else there is something so special about the
: Flood that they deserve preservation when nothing else does-- or perhaps
: both.

Why do the flood need preservation? Or is it that they have some condition that makes them immune to the usual mass-sterilization protocols? This has to wait till Halo 3.

: Just to speculate, if there ARE other mechanisms for preserving the galaxy's
: sentient life, or at least restoring it after the installations are
: fired-- could this not have restored the Forerunners then? Might it not
: still do so if it has not yet done so?

The Forerunners perhaps live on in humanity. Are they part of the human subconscious? How come Halsey is so, so smart, and how come she and her Spartans can go about with an innate understanding of the Forerunner script, something that the covenant don't have? Why is Master Chief a 'Reclaimer', someone who'd logically reclaim a past heritage? "When you last asked me..." "Why do you hesitate to do what you have already done..." Is he talking to Elijah, or is it to all of humanity? Remember, 'you' is plural as well as singular.

: Staten is being deliberately mysterious. It may be that Spark's information
: is incomplete. It may also be that while it is true that they "died
: as planned" that there were contingency plans for preserving their
: species.

: A Library usually stores things you want to save for posterity, doesn't it?

Did Spark know all of the contingency plans from the outset? Or did he learn them from Cortana's data? And, most importantly, does he now understand the human-covenant-forerunner situation any better than when we first met him?


Message Index




Replies:

My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesGravemind 9/11/06 11:40 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesNarcogen 9/12/06 12:27 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesKP 9/12/06 12:31 a.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesNarcogen 9/12/06 12:55 a.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesSep7imus [subnova] 9/12/06 7:27 a.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesKP 9/12/06 9:39 a.m.
     Note about the FloodNarcogen 9/12/06 1:05 a.m.
           Re: Note about the FloodGravemind 9/12/06 9:43 p.m.
                 Re: Note about the FloodUrsusArctos 9/13/06 2:49 a.m.
                       Re: Note about the FloodNarcogen 9/13/06 5:21 a.m.
                             Re: Note about the FloodUrsusArctos 9/13/06 7:58 a.m.
                                   Re: Note about the FloodNarcogen 9/13/06 9:24 a.m.
                             Guilty Spark's credibilityUrsusArctos 9/13/06 8:16 a.m.
                       Re: Note about the FloodMister Froggy 9/13/06 9:07 a.m.
           Re: Note about the FloodNarcogen 9/16/06 10:46 p.m.
                 Re: Note about the FloodUrsusArctos 9/17/06 7:53 a.m.
                       Re: Note about the FloodStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/17/06 8:36 a.m.
                             Re: Note about the FloodUrsusArctos 9/17/06 8:48 a.m.
     You sir, have my respect.Endbringer 9/12/06 1:08 a.m.
     Page is down exceeded its data transfer limit.Captain Spark 9/12/06 7:46 a.m.
     Exceeded for me too :(yakaman 9/12/06 7:54 a.m.
     Mirrored here:Louis Wu 9/12/06 8:07 a.m.
           Font colour inversion request?hminn 9/12/06 12:43 p.m.
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                       Re: Font colour inversion request?Hellhawk 9/12/06 1:23 p.m.
                       Thank you :D *NM*hminn 9/12/06 1:50 p.m.
                       Re: Font colour inversion request?ManKitten 9/12/06 2:10 p.m.
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                                         Re: Font colour inversion request?Louis Wu 9/12/06 2:36 p.m.
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                                                     Re: Font colour inversion request?[AMS] GreyThor 9/12/06 3:16 p.m.
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                                                     Note: Auto-aimJakeDaGreat 9/12/06 3:17 p.m.
                                                           Re: Note: Auto-aimGravemind 9/13/06 12:03 a.m.
                                                                 Tidbit on Controllers with PC FPSDoT_Gunslinger 9/13/06 12:11 a.m.
                                                     Re: Font colour inversion request?Hellhawk 9/12/06 3:39 p.m.
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                                   ow... *NM*BJB 9/12/06 2:21 p.m.
                                   Re: Font colour inversion request?ManKitten 9/12/06 2:38 p.m.
                                   Re: Font colour inversion request?RC Master 9/12/06 4:12 p.m.
                                   Re: Font colour inversion request?jdogmoney 9/12/06 5:13 p.m.
                                   Re: Font colour inversion request?Matt 9/12/06 5:24 p.m.
                                         Re: Font colour inversion request?Louis Wu 9/12/06 6:15 p.m.
                                               Re: One WordKP 9/12/06 6:24 p.m.
                                                     Re: One WordShishka 9/12/06 6:52 p.m.
                                                           Re: One WordJillybean 9/12/06 7:05 p.m.
                                                                 Re: One WordMa1agate 9/14/06 8:49 a.m.
                                   Pfffft...That's nothing...zugy 9/12/06 5:29 p.m.
                                         Re: Pfffft...That's nothing...TMoneY 9/12/06 7:12 p.m.
                                               Re: Pfffft...That's nothing...[AMS] GreyThor 9/12/06 8:05 p.m.
                                   There was a time when I would cry tears of bloodEndbringer 9/12/06 7:49 p.m.
           How'd you do that with the HTML coding?Gravemind 9/12/06 10:01 p.m.
                 Re: How'd you do that with the HTML coding?Louis Wu 9/12/06 10:11 p.m.
           Re: Mirrored here:ya know...vshields ash 9/13/06 1:22 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesSA 9/12/06 8:25 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesCaptain Spark 9/12/06 8:44 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesMister Froggy 9/12/06 10:02 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriespillar of awesome 9/12/06 11:06 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDucain 9/12/06 11:25 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesFrankie 9/12/06 12:06 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesKonrad 9/12/06 12:25 p.m.
           Thank you!Saint 9/12/06 2:24 p.m.
                 Re: Thank you!Peptuck 9/12/06 2:47 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesSimpsons Rule 9/12/06 3:51 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 4:16 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesEndbringer 9/12/06 4:32 p.m.
                       Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 6:44 p.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/12/06 6:47 p.m.
                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 9:12 p.m.
                                         Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/13/06 12:47 a.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesEndbringer 9/12/06 8:20 p.m.
                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 9:00 p.m.
                                         Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesEndbringer 9/12/06 10:15 p.m.
                                               Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 11:56 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/12/06 7:09 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/12/06 7:40 p.m.
                       Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 9:03 p.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/13/06 6:17 p.m.
                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/13/06 9:23 p.m.
                                         Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/14/06 12:19 a.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesTalkingElmo 9/12/06 9:32 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 9:36 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/13/06 12:52 a.m.
                       Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/13/06 8:38 a.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 9/13/06 12:35 p.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/13/06 1:58 p.m.
                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/13/06 9:02 p.m.
                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesTalkingElmo 9/13/06 10:19 p.m.
                                         Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/13/06 11:36 p.m.
                                         Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/14/06 12:18 a.m.
                                               Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesTalkingElmo 9/14/06 4:09 p.m.
                                                     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesLouis Wu 9/14/06 9:05 p.m.
                                                           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesTalkingElmo 9/14/06 10:28 p.m.
                                                                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/15/06 12:24 a.m.
                                                                       Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/15/06 12:58 a.m.
                                                                             Re: The pistol.Gravemind 9/16/06 12:31 a.m.
                                                                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/16/06 1:29 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/16/06 2:25 p.m.
                 Nice to see you around *NM*Miguel Chavez 9/13/06 6:17 a.m.
                 WoahDucain 9/13/06 7:41 a.m.
                       Re: Woahvshields ash 9/15/06 3:41 a.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesGravemind 9/16/06 1:34 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesSith 9/12/06 12:15 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriespillar of awesome 9/12/06 1:04 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesjlchief 9/12/06 1:24 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series overviewThe More Deluded 9/12/06 1:27 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series overviewPeptuck 9/12/06 2:51 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series overviewShortRoundMcfly 9/16/06 3:00 p.m.
                       Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series overviewKoCKynVainn 9/16/06 3:03 p.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series overviewShortRoundMcfly 9/16/06 4:59 p.m.
                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series overviewchaostheory101 9/17/06 12:03 a.m.
     Can I get this book form?DanteThePoet 9/12/06 2:07 p.m.
     Game Difficultyyakaman 9/12/06 2:20 p.m.
     Missed one thing...Son Goharotto 9/12/06 2:51 p.m.
           Dammit!Son Goharotto 9/12/06 2:53 p.m.
                 Re: Dammit!Simpsons Rule 9/12/06 3:53 p.m.
                       Re: Dammit!mercury 9/12/06 4:40 p.m.
           Re: Missed one thing...Peptuck 9/12/06 2:56 p.m.
                 Re: Missed one thing...Son Goharotto 9/12/06 4:01 p.m.
           alien weaponscarab 9/12/06 3:30 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesmercury 9/12/06 3:45 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesJakeDaGreat 9/12/06 4:04 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesmercury 9/12/06 5:08 p.m.
                       Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesJakeDaGreat 9/12/06 8:07 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesShortRoundMcfly 9/12/06 4:41 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesJim Shorts 9/12/06 8:08 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/12/06 5:02 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/12/06 5:54 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesPsychophan7 9/12/06 5:32 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series *NM*SA 9/12/06 7:39 p.m.
                 Accidental post... Sorry. *NM*SA 9/12/06 7:40 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesSlith 9/13/06 6:57 a.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesGravemind 9/16/06 5:53 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesMothergoat 9/13/06 11:33 a.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesMiguel Chavez 9/13/06 11:53 a.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesMothergoat 9/13/06 12:12 p.m.
     Thanks everyone.Gravemind 9/16/06 1:42 a.m.
           Re: Thanks everyone.Louis Wu 9/16/06 9:17 a.m.
     halo pc demojmcanon92 9/17/06 9:09 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesjmcanon92 9/17/06 9:10 a.m.



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