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Re: I disagree
Posted By: Noctavis =PN= <mobius@xmission.com>Date: 10/24/99 7:10 a.m.

In Response To: I disagree (mad.max)

> Au contraire, I find that I have made some perfectly W3C
> conforming pages which show up perfectly in NS 4 and iCab (iCab
> didn't even have an unhappy face, which is great!), and then the
> same page looks terrible in IE, with pictures overflowing onto
> text, pages which are and inch too wide, and numerous other
> problems.

Can you share some of these with me/us? I'd like to dissect the nitty-gritty specifics... If you could toss me either some files or URLs, I'd appreciate it.

You say they're perfectly W3C-conforming? Were you using layers or anything of the sort?

> ok, that's true, however they've fixed that little (teehee)
> problem in NS4 and above. And after all, don't 90% of the
> population use 4.0 upwards browsers these days?

No they haven't. NetScrape still has ugly table support. The table-crash bug was fixed, but the rest still has plenty of problems.

For instance... if you don't define a very specific (pixel or percentage) width or height for a given table cell, NetScrape has a lot of difficulty adjusting it intelligently in relation to other table cells. Table cells that have been well-defined will expand to fill the page while the undefined cell will shrink to nothingness.

> Never seen it, but then I'm not QUITE sure what you mean.
> Sometimes it donesn't relaod properly, but you are supposed to
> hold down shift, so that it reloads from server. (stupid, I
> know)

That's just it. Why should you have to hold down shift? It also isn't consistent or reliable.... there have been plenty of times that I've had to close down NS and then reopen it just to view updates to a given page.

> I could be wrong, but in my HTML Dictionary, there are a hell of
> a lot of things which are IE 4.0 only, and which don't conform
> to W3C, such as various layering options and CSS things which
> aren't in the formal definitions. There are some in Netscape
> too, but I'm sure there aren't as many.

*Clears throat*

A great many of the things that are implemented on only IE are within the standards... which might help to push that balance over a bit in whatever dictionary you're using.

It is true that Microsoft likes to throw in a few new tags now and then, but they still conform much more... Most books I have read or browsed that discuss the differences between NS and IE will tell you that IE holds to the standard better.

Want to know something really funny? JavaScript originated as a NetScrape language... there has been a new standard for JS called ECMA (or the ECMAscript standard) and Microsoft is following this much better than Netscape has, to date.

> I personally think that iCab rules. It is small, fast as hell,
> and conforms TO THE LETTER to the W3C rules. Ok, it costs about
> 45DM, but that is hardly anything (about $7?)

Hrm... to the letter? I was hearing that there are some rather common things that it may not support.... table backgrounds?

> There is one final thing, might it be possible that the mac and
> Windows versions of IE and NS are different. I mean, it is
> obvious that Microsoft would make IE work amazingly well with
> Windows, but probably don't care a HUGE amount about the Mac,
> and NS hate Microsoft, and is in cahoots with Mac, so would
> therefore try to make the Mac version better?

The important thing to remember is that NetScape is not really any better than Microsoft in many ways. Were MS destroyed in a nerd-homing cruise missile or ICBM attack (N. Korea is due to have ICBM capability to target the Western half of the U.S. within the next year or two, if they don't starve to death first), Netscape would not be any kinder. They use the same tactics in many things... they're building up a huge juggernaut group of products and services. NetScrape, AOL, Compuserve and Gateway are all interrelated now, financially. AOL/NetScrape have bought up ICQ and other programs.

If MS didn't already have a monopoly, Netscape would be the ones we would be hating.

-Noctavis

Message Index



Replies:

Some Stats, for those who keep trackLouis Wu 10/24/99 12:22 a.m.
     IE!?!Daft Shadow =PN= 10/24/99 12:41 a.m.
           Browser war! *throws his mouse at DS's head*Noctavis =PN= 10/24/99 3:30 a.m.
                 I disagreemad.max 10/24/99 6:20 a.m.
                       Re: I disagreeNoctavis =PN= 10/24/99 6:57 a.m.
                             iCabCyberBob 10/25/99 3:39 a.m.
                                   Re: iCabJägermeister 10/25/99 1:14 p.m.
                       Re: I disagreeNoctavis =PN= 10/24/99 7:10 a.m.
                             Read the above one (frickin' laptop mouse) NTNoctavis =PN= 10/24/99 7:17 a.m.
                                   Hate it when that happens (NT)mad.max 10/24/99 9:42 a.m.
                             Re: I disagreeClaude Errera 10/24/99 9:24 a.m.
                                   Missing CSS Supportmad.max 10/24/99 11:21 a.m.
                                         Re: Missing CSS SupportFractalus =PN= 10/24/99 6:31 p.m.
                                               I do the same thingSonicStorm 10/25/99 3:02 a.m.
                                   Forced refreshNoctavis =PN= 10/24/99 8:03 p.m.
                             Re: I disagreemad.max 10/24/99 9:41 a.m.
                                   HTML nitty-grittyNoctavis =PN= 10/25/99 5:03 a.m.
                                   HTML nitty-grittyNoctavis =PN= 10/25/99 6:25 a.m.
                                         Re: HTML nitty-grittymad.max 10/25/99 2:16 p.m.
                                               Re: HTML nitty-grittyNoctavis =PN= 10/25/99 5:45 p.m.
                                                     Re: HTML nitty-grittymad.max 10/26/99 11:36 a.m.
                       yeah, they are differentSonicStorm 10/25/99 2:56 a.m.
                 Just rememberedmad.max 10/24/99 6:23 a.m.
                 My Mac is 100% Microcrock free! NTJägermeister 10/24/99 5:35 p.m.
                 Re: Browser war! *throws his mouse at DS's head*Cheese 10/24/99 8:03 p.m.
                 Amen Brother! (NT)SonicStorm 10/25/99 2:52 a.m.
           Re: Some Stats, for those who keep trackJoeDaMac 10/24/99 12:13 p.m.
                 Re: Some Stats, for those who keep trackMage 10/24/99 12:21 p.m.
                       Re: Some Stats, for those who keep trackTsao =PN= 10/24/99 1:47 p.m.
                             Re: Some Stats, for those who keep trackMage 10/24/99 3:44 p.m.
                 Dont forget the macusers here with windows@work ntCyberBob 10/25/99 3:31 a.m.
                       Re: Dont forget the macusers here with windows@worJägermeister 10/25/99 1:13 p.m.
           What are you guys talking about?Freewill 10/24/99 12:57 p.m.
           Re: IE!?!SonicStorm 10/25/99 2:49 a.m.
                 Re: IE!?!SiliconDream 10/25/99 10:52 a.m.
     Re: Some Stats, for those who keep trackTroy Lawlor 10/24/99 6:13 p.m.
           Re: Some Stats, for those who keep trackLouis Wu 10/24/99 6:56 p.m.
     Re: Some Stats, for those who keep trackBlack Marlin 10/25/99 6:31 a.m.



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