Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue


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Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue

Posted By: Philtron Date: 12/13/20 8:43 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue (General-RADIX)

Your responses are very frustrating because you're responding to things I never said and arguing with points I never made. If you don't agree with me, that's fine, but don't put words in my mouth to get angry about.
: I am not a fan of any analytical method that involves picking and choosing
: what parts of a work do/don't count--in this case, especially the parts
: that help lend that work its particular atmosphere and are otherwise not
: indicated to be non-canon fluff.
I never said that the non-diegetic parts don't count or don't add to the atmosphere. Stop arguing with me about stuff I never said.
: If the approach had been "the non-sheepy dream levels' subplots probably
: have more to do with the Security Officer than the main plot and were
: designed to have multiple readings, so for simplicity's sake we're putting
: them to the side", I wouldn't be nearly as bothered.
The dream levels do not directly have to do with the Security Officer. They are non-literally connected to the story by underscoring mood, atmosphere, and exploring the themes/motifs of the game in a different way.
But if you want to claim otherwise, prove it by pointing to what in the Text of the game supports your view.
: 'cuz then we're not claiming that levels that are placed in the canon level sequence,
: mandatory to progress, and seem to have an impact on the main plot in
: terms of what the SO is experiencing between jumps...arbitrarily didn't
: happen, for no reason other than that it's not immediately obvious how
: they fit in.
You keep saying my conclusions are "arbitrary" when I've stated my rationale for these decisions. Please stop. I have stated that the dream levels don't literally happen to the main character because there is nothing pointing towards that being the case. If you want to argue otherwise then prove it: what does everything literally mean in the dream levels? What is the literal nature of the grey S'pht and Enforcers? Etc.
The dream levels don't have an impact on the plot and they don't represent what the character is experiencing between jumps. If you want to claim otherwise, prove it. What is the player experiencing between jumps? Walking through Jjaro lava facilities somewhere?
My own point is that if you removed the dream levels, then the plot would remain the same. You would just be missing the additional atmosphere and an alternate angle on the themes of the story.
: Same for Ne Cede Malis's end terminal. If I were writing these, I'd just
: acknowledge that it's a strange terminal and move on, not claim it's a
: "non-diagetic" message in a series whose non-diagetic terminals
: aren't mandatory reading. (And before you repeat what you said to VBB: no,
: I really don't think that Double Aught would break that particular
: convention for one non-dream level.)
Here you're upset that I have a different opinion than you, but disguise it as some interpretative disagreement.
Acknowledging that the terminal is strange and moving on is lazy and adds nothing to our understanding of what's going on. That would be the exact opposite point of this entire endeavor. You're just basically saying I should shut up and not voice my interpretation, and trying to hide that's what you're saying.
I never claimed that the non-diegetic portions of the game are not mandatory. Stop making up things I never said. I provided two of the most reasonable interpretations of these terminals 1) they are non-diegetic narration (like a narrator in a book), 2) they are a non-literal representation of the main character's Jjaro-influenced intuition. That is what the Text of the game suggests.
Why do you think Double Aught wouldn't break from this particular convention? What possible reasoning do you have for this opinion in a game in which Double Aught deliberately broke from some of the most important conventions in storytelling? Or is it just that you personally don't like this idea because it's unusual to you?

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Philtron 12/12/20 9:08 a.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Godot 12/12/20 12:14 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Philtron 12/12/20 1:10 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue General-RADIX 12/12/20 1:27 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Philtron 12/12/20 1:53 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue General-RADIX 12/12/20 10:37 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Philtron 12/13/20 8:43 a.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue General-RADIX 12/13/20 2:04 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Philtron 12/13/20 2:19 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue General-RADIX 12/13/20 2:40 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Forrest of B.org 12/13/20 8:57 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Philtron 12/15/20 4:12 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Durandal_1707 12/15/20 6:25 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Forrest of B.org 12/16/20 11:31 a.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue VikingBoyBilly 12/14/20 3:06 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Philtron 12/15/20 4:15 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Godot 12/13/20 12:56 a.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Philtron 12/13/20 8:50 a.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue VikingBoyBilly 12/12/20 1:44 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Philtron 12/12/20 1:58 p.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Philtron 12/12/20 7:04 p.m.

What about... Durandal_1707 12/12/20 4:07 p.m.

Re: What about... Philtron 12/12/20 4:38 p.m.

Re: What about... Godot 12/12/20 10:56 p.m.

Re: What about... Godot 12/13/20 12:18 a.m.

Re: What about... Philtron 12/13/20 8:46 a.m.

Re: What about... Godot 12/14/20 11:36 p.m.

Re: What about... Bob-B-Q 12/13/20 12:24 p.m.

Re: What about... Philtron 12/13/20 1:54 p.m.

Re: What about... Durandal_1707 12/13/20 7:37 p.m.

Re: What about... Forrest of B.org 12/13/20 8:59 p.m.

Re: What about... Durandal_1707 12/14/20 8:20 a.m.

Re: What about... Forrest of B.org 12/14/20 2:13 p.m.

Re: What about... Durandal_1707 12/14/20 2:57 p.m.

Re: What about... General-RADIX 12/14/20 4:06 p.m.

Re: What about... Godot 12/14/20 11:13 p.m.

Re: What about... Durandal_1707 12/15/20 4:05 a.m.

Re: What about... VikingBoyBilly 12/16/20 7:08 a.m.

Re: What about... Godot 12/17/20 3:29 a.m.

Re: What about... VikingBoyBilly 12/17/20 4:43 a.m.

Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue Godot 12/13/20 4:18 a.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: Your responses are very frustrating because you're responding to things I : never said and arguing with points I never made. If you don't agree with : me, that's fine, but don't put words in my mouth to get angry about. : I never said that the non-diegetic parts don't count or don't add to the : atmosphere. Stop arguing with me about stuff I never said. : The dream levels do not directly have to do with the Security Officer. They : are non-literally connected to the story by underscoring mood, atmosphere, : and exploring the themes/motifs of the game in a different way. : But if you want to claim otherwise, prove it by pointing to what in the Text : of the game supports your view. : You keep saying my conclusions are "arbitrary" when I've stated my : rationale for these decisions. Please stop. I have stated that the dream : levels don't literally happen to the main character because there is : nothing pointing towards that being the case. If you want to argue : otherwise then prove it: what does everything literally mean in the dream : levels? What is the literal nature of the grey S'pht and Enforcers? Etc. : The dream levels don't have an impact on the plot and they don't represent : what the character is experiencing between jumps. If you want to claim : otherwise, prove it. What is the player experiencing between jumps? : Walking through Jjaro lava facilities somewhere? : My own point is that if you removed the dream levels, then the plot would : remain the same. You would just be missing the additional atmosphere and : an alternate angle on the themes of the story. : Here you're upset that I have a different opinion than you, but disguise it : as some interpretative disagreement. : Acknowledging that the terminal is strange and moving on is lazy and adds : nothing to our understanding of what's going on. That would be the exact : opposite point of this entire endeavor. You're just basically saying I : should shut up and not voice my interpretation, and trying to hide that's : what you're saying. : I never claimed that the non-diegetic portions of the game are not mandatory. : Stop making up things I never said. I provided two of the most reasonable : interpretations of these terminals 1) they are non-diegetic narration : (like a narrator in a book), 2) they are a non-literal representation of : the main character's Jjaro-influenced intuition. That is what the Text of : the game suggests. : Why do you think Double Aught wouldn't break from this particular convention? : What possible reasoning do you have for this opinion in a game in which : Double Aught deliberately broke from some of the most important : conventions in storytelling? Or is it just that you personally don't like : this idea because it's unusual to you?

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Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Philtron	12/12/20 9:08 a.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Godot	12/12/20 12:14 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Philtron	12/12/20 1:10 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	General-RADIX	12/12/20 1:27 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Philtron	12/12/20 1:53 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	General-RADIX	12/12/20 10:37 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Philtron	12/13/20 8:43 a.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	General-RADIX	12/13/20 2:04 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Philtron	12/13/20 2:19 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	General-RADIX	12/13/20 2:40 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Forrest of B.org	12/13/20 8:57 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Philtron	12/15/20 4:12 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Durandal_1707	12/15/20 6:25 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Forrest of B.org	12/16/20 11:31 a.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	VikingBoyBilly	12/14/20 3:06 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Philtron	12/15/20 4:15 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Godot	12/13/20 12:56 a.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Philtron	12/13/20 8:50 a.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	VikingBoyBilly	12/12/20 1:44 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Philtron	12/12/20 1:58 p.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Philtron	12/12/20 7:04 p.m.
What about...	Durandal_1707	12/12/20 4:07 p.m.
Re: What about...	Philtron	12/12/20 4:38 p.m.
Re: What about...	Godot	12/12/20 10:56 p.m.
Re: What about...	Godot	12/13/20 12:18 a.m.
Re: What about...	Philtron	12/13/20 8:46 a.m.
Re: What about...	Godot	12/14/20 11:36 p.m.
Re: What about...	Bob-B-Q	12/13/20 12:24 p.m.
Re: What about...	Philtron	12/13/20 1:54 p.m.
Re: What about...	Durandal_1707	12/13/20 7:37 p.m.
Re: What about...	Forrest of B.org	12/13/20 8:59 p.m.
Re: What about...	Durandal_1707	12/14/20 8:20 a.m.
Re: What about...	Forrest of B.org	12/14/20 2:13 p.m.
Re: What about...	Durandal_1707	12/14/20 2:57 p.m.
Re: What about...	General-RADIX	12/14/20 4:06 p.m.
Re: What about...	Godot	12/14/20 11:13 p.m.
Re: What about...	Durandal_1707	12/15/20 4:05 a.m.
Re: What about...	VikingBoyBilly	12/16/20 7:08 a.m.
Re: What about...	Godot	12/17/20 3:29 a.m.
Re: What about...	VikingBoyBilly	12/17/20 4:43 a.m.
Re: Marathon Infinity: the Story: Prologue	Godot	12/13/20 4:18 a.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : Your responses are very frustrating because you're responding to things I : never said and arguing with points I never made. If you don't agree with : me, that's fine, but don't put words in my mouth to get angry about. : I never said that the non-diegetic parts don't count or don't add to the : atmosphere. Stop arguing with me about stuff I never said. : The dream levels do not directly have to do with the Security Officer. They : are non-literally connected to the story by underscoring mood, atmosphere, : and exploring the themes/motifs of the game in a different way. : But if you want to claim otherwise, prove it by pointing to what in the Text : of the game supports your view. : You keep saying my conclusions are "arbitrary" when I've stated my : rationale for these decisions. Please stop. I have stated that the dream : levels don't literally happen to the main character because there is : nothing pointing towards that being the case. If you want to argue : otherwise then prove it: what does everything literally mean in the dream : levels? What is the literal nature of the grey S'pht and Enforcers? Etc. : The dream levels don't have an impact on the plot and they don't represent : what the character is experiencing between jumps. If you want to claim : otherwise, prove it. What is the player experiencing between jumps? : Walking through Jjaro lava facilities somewhere? : My own point is that if you removed the dream levels, then the plot would : remain the same. You would just be missing the additional atmosphere and : an alternate angle on the themes of the story. : Here you're upset that I have a different opinion than you, but disguise it : as some interpretative disagreement. : Acknowledging that the terminal is strange and moving on is lazy and adds : nothing to our understanding of what's going on. That would be the exact : opposite point of this entire endeavor. You're just basically saying I : should shut up and not voice my interpretation, and trying to hide that's : what you're saying. : I never claimed that the non-diegetic portions of the game are not mandatory. : Stop making up things I never said. I provided two of the most reasonable : interpretations of these terminals 1) they are non-diegetic narration : (like a narrator in a book), 2) they are a non-literal representation of : the main character's Jjaro-influenced intuition. That is what the Text of : the game suggests. : Why do you think Double Aught wouldn't break from this particular convention? : What possible reasoning do you have for this opinion in a game in which : Double Aught deliberately broke from some of the most important : conventions in storytelling? Or is it just that you personally don't like : this idea because it's unusual to you?
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