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Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*
Posted By: scratskinnerDate: 12/21/17 12:48 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED* (Forrest of B.org)

I'd been waffling about when to post, and then that fire happened, but now that things look kinda stable for you now, might as well.

: I hadn't thought of that angle, but possibly, it's an interesting thought.
: Mostly I was thinking that the resolution to "can I make copies of
: myself and modify them?" and the consequent legal/moral questions
: would be that there must remain an unmodified version of you, and any
: modified versions of you are basically "characters/personae"
: running on autopilot but with the unmodified you there in the background
: experiencing everything they experience and able to step in and assume
: control of them, with multiple simultaneous instances of the unmodified
: you running so you never feel like you're multitasking several lives, even
: though all of those instances share the same long-term memory and so don't
: diverge from each other.

: With that kind of system in place, Metis could spin off a bunch of modified
: copies of herself "in character" as different people. But that's
: still just a thought, I'm not sure yet that it's what's actually
: happening.

How far can you modify before your alts' (autopilot) goals diverge from your own? Say you're some hell denizen that really really wants to take the piss out of those goody-two-shoes that wants to "redeem" them. (It's hell, whaddya expect?) You want to keep messing with them, and if you're banned or whatever, you want to keep doing it without getting spotted instantly. It's important to find that sweet spot between "can't tell it's me cause it isn't" and "actually is me and quickly spotted" for your sockpuppets.

I imagine certain members of hell outreach (say, for instance, Xiu) have gotten plenty of experience sussing out trolls navigating this sweet spot, if being Virtuality native for a sufficient time didn't do it.

(I mean, yeah, there's the admin, but you still need that nagging sense that something's off to ask for their eyes on it. And they might be hijacking someone else's alt, or that someone else might be the equivalent of a straw buyer, so even an admin might not assure a speedy confirmation of ban evasion.)

It could also factor into Sue's relationship with Tom. Tom keeps giving her mixed signals, always changing form, yet no sinister motive behind it. (Xiu called tons of false alarms on him, and Tom sought out whoever it was kept doing this to him.) And Tom, for his part, is amazed that Sue can always tell it's him, no matter what form he takes or tweaks he makes. (Once Sue figured out how to distinguish between "Tom" and "troll", anyways.)

Metis, given her pre-apocalypse Virtuality aversion, would not be so skilled. I imagine Sue getting this stop-and-go sense of offness as she incorporates her memories, stop-and go because Metis patches things to pass the Sue Pseudo Detector Mk. x, and then Sue, via memory recovery/incorporation, upgrades to Mk. x+1, and Metis has to put out fires again. Metis eventually realizes alts won't cut it: she has to pull in actually different people. And the time wasted arms racing Sue: lots of panic attacks from Sue, a mounting sense of dread from Tom, and too thinly stretched to do something conclusive like review memories in the queue or properly disable magic. To say nothing of her other duties: is she still running the world throughout all this?

If not, (and maybe even if so, if she's mostly dealing with high-level stuff now, and really rusty on her early days in this incarnation) there may be certain aspects of organizations that Metis wasn't simulating properly, and which Sue would, having significant related skills, spot right off. (More fires for Metis to put out!)

All sorts of "Augh, I missed they'd had that experience" shenanigans are possible here. (There really ought to be more vetting of memories after the trial run. Or maybe Metis wants to see Sue/Tom suffer as she did. Just a little.)

Another thought: at what point do they stop being Princess/Nystimi* and Murdock, with Sue and Tom's memories, and simply are Sue and Tom? I'd expect some skepticism ("I was some detached granny?/What! I was some hotheaded panphile?!") and then some gradual realization that it is them("It is awful tempting not to deal with all these politics./I do feel right when in the thick of things"). Maybe there's still some dissonance, enough that they use both old and new names. (Not sure on the hypothetical dialogue for sue.)

*Terrible terrible wordplay alert. Ny Stimmy (later, post-virtuality) Xiu: something she has no doubt said many times over her career. (Are minimal-syllable names a Vampire thing, or am I extrapolating too widely? Also, I forget: what sort of art was Xiao Do?)

: Yeah, that would have likely happened some time during Falling of the
: Darklight, which is part of the big gap I have in their personal
: timelines: what were these two doing while staying away from all of the
: action that is the focus of those stories?

Don't forget that being in the thick of it is not necessarily incompatible with being baseline by the time they hatch their yin-yang plot with the Gems.

Even if you don't go for the "work your way back" approach, given the apparent timescale corruption works on, it's not entirely inconceivable for them to walk onto the scene as things go all Charlie Foxtrot, and return to whatever they were doing before. Or maybe Xiu is still basically doing hell outreach and visits both spheres of influence, while Tom is simply allergic to corruption from the lock-in and never stays in one place for long. Or even that, in their wars with each other, the Ice Queen/Fire King (or less far gone subordinates) recognized the value of people resistant to Gem subordination (if only in application to the enemy) and actively trained such to be further corruptionproof (and Sue/Tom met as opposite numbers).

At any rate, assuming it wasn't blatantly obvious to you already: Focus on Sue. Tom's (post-"Life in Another World") bits, Murdock's bits: Show it from her point of view. Give yourself more material to work with, and it should be clearer how things will flow in the endgame.

: I dunno, I thought that that part felt very natural for her, and it wasn't
: focused on her because of our discussion here, that part was always meant
: to be Xiu-centric. I picture her as more of the diplomatic social type of
: person, while Tom is the more action-oriented one. Like how in the old
: Virtuality, she was part of the group organizing the project to redeem
: damned souls, but Tom was one of the ones actually going to hell in
: service of that project. So having her take charge of the sociopolitical
: aspects of Sphidi relations seems very natural and characteristic of her,
: to me.

I was referring more to the "Finally, Sue gets the spotlight" in the announcement you made. Unless you were always planning to do that?

Also, wasn't Xiu already there when Xio saved that pocket of Virtuality? At any rate, being willing to do the legwork is kinda part of the requirements for getting to higher levels of heaven, and it would be less-than-virtuous for them to never actually visit Hell and leave all the dirty work to other people. Which you seem to be implying with "the ones actually going to hell".

(Now I'm wondering: are there people who leave a highish level of heaven and find they can't come back because their standards had slipped before they left? and who this would happen to, but never actually leave?)

Plus, diplomacy ever so occasionally requires you go to the other party in person.

And running Sphidi politics may be characteristic of her, but none of her characteristics are coming through, which is what I was trying to get at.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Eternal stuffGeneral-RADIX 11/26/17 10:21 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2scratskinner 11/18/17 3:39 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2Forrest of B.org 11/20/17 10:33 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 3cscratskinner 11/22/17 7:20 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2 3cForrest of B.org 11/22/17 9:54 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2General-RADIX 11/18/17 6:37 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2Forrest of B.org 11/20/17 10:40 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 2General-RADIX 11/20/17 1:51 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                                 Virtuality Immanent: Part 3Forrest of B.org 11/16/17 9:57 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3scratskinner 11/17/17 12:38 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3General-RADIX 11/17/17 7:15 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3VikingBoyBilly 11/17/17 12:35 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3Forrest of B.org 11/17/17 3:23 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3VikingBoyBilly 11/17/17 6:06 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3Forrest of B.org 11/17/17 10:05 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Virtuality Immanent: Part 3nevets01 11/17/17 12:46 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                                       The Chronicles of Quelouva are DONE! (ish)Forrest of B.org 12/29/17 8:31 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                                             Re: The Chronicles of Quelouva are DONE! (ish)General-RADIX 12/30/17 1:47 a.m.
     some random thoughtsscratskinner 9/9/17 12:29 a.m.
           Re: some random thoughtsForrest of B.org 9/9/17 8:40 a.m.
                 Re: some random thoughtsscratskinner 9/10/17 2:19 a.m.
                       Re: some random thoughtsForrest of B.org 9/11/17 9:35 a.m.
                             Re: some random thoughtsscratskinner 9/12/17 5:14 p.m.
                                   Re: some random thoughtsForrest of B.org 9/12/17 6:24 p.m.
                                         Re: some random thoughtsscratskinner 9/14/17 7:53 p.m.
                                               Re: some random thoughtsForrest of B.org 9/14/17 10:13 p.m.
                                                     Re: some random thoughtsscratskinner 9/16/17 11:01 a.m.
                                                           Re: some random thoughtsForrest of B.org 9/16/17 2:56 p.m.
                                                                 Re: some random thoughtsscratskinner 9/17/17 12:13 p.m.
                                                                       Re: some random thoughtsForrest of B.org 9/18/17 8:10 a.m.
                             Re: some random thoughts 2bscratskinner 9/16/17 9:12 a.m.
                                   Re: some random thoughts 2bForrest of B.org 9/16/17 2:58 p.m.
                                         Re: some random thoughts 2bscratskinner 9/17/17 12:31 p.m.
                                               Re: some random thoughts 2bForrest of B.org 9/18/17 7:41 a.m.
           Re: some random thoughtsForrest of B.org 9/11/17 3:37 p.m.
           Re: some random thoughtsForrest of B.org 9/14/17 1:55 p.m.
     Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaGeneral-RADIX 9/11/17 8:02 p.m.
     Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaForrest of B.org 9/28/17 9:43 p.m.
           Re: The Chronicles of Quelouvascratskinner 9/30/17 1:11 a.m.
                 Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaForrest of B.org 10/2/17 9:56 a.m.
                       Re: The Chronicles of Quelouvascratskinner 10/7/17 12:53 p.m.
                             Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaForrest of B.org 10/9/17 3:14 p.m.
                                   Re: The Chronicles of Quelouvascratskinner 10/17/17 6:38 p.m.
                                         Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaForrest of B.org 10/17/17 8:23 p.m.
     Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaTycho 10/22/17 4:14 p.m.
           Re: The Chronicles of Quelouvanevets01 10/23/17 7:42 a.m.
           Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaForrest of B.org 10/23/17 10:41 a.m.
     Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaForrest of B.org 10/26/17 10:49 p.m.
           Re: The Chronicles of Quelouvascratskinner 10/27/17 1:34 a.m.
                 Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaForrest of B.org 10/27/17 8:32 a.m.
     Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*scratskinner 11/9/17 10:50 p.m.
           Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*Forrest of B.org 11/10/17 8:39 a.m.
                 Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*scratskinner 12/21/17 12:48 p.m.
                       noticed you've updated while doing some factchecksscratskinner 12/21/17 2:26 p.m.
                       Re: Virtuality Transcendent: Part 3 *MOVED*Forrest of B.org 12/21/17 3:48 p.m.
     Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaForrest of B.org 11/22/17 12:18 p.m.
           Future Perfect expandedForrest of B.org 11/29/17 10:00 p.m.
     Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaForrest of B.org 12/7/17 9:30 a.m.
           Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaGeneral-RADIX 12/7/17 9:43 a.m.
                 Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaForrest of B.org 12/7/17 10:24 a.m.
                       Re: The Chronicles of Quelouvascratskinner 12/8/17 7:22 p.m.
                             Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaForrest of B.org 12/9/17 8:19 a.m.
                                   Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaForrest of B.org 12/13/17 9:10 a.m.
                                         Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaGeneral-RADIX 12/13/17 3:18 p.m.
                                         Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaYossarian 12/15/17 9:58 p.m.
                                         Re: The Chronicles of Quelouvascratskinner 12/16/17 1:22 p.m.
                                               Re: The Chronicles of QuelouvaForrest of B.org 12/18/17 12:56 p.m.

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