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Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | ||
Posted By: Mark Levin | Date: 1/13/02 6:46 a.m. | |
In Response To: Dream Terminal Thoughts (SiliconDream =PN=) : --Timeline 0: The timeline of the Infinity manual intro. (It may be identical
I believe that T0 is identical to T2, exactly for that reason: There's no conflicting evidence, and there's a good bit of circumstancial evidence that they are the same. It's a bit forced, but we could use Durandal's retreat to the asteroids to explain how he managed to survive capture (after all, where's he living in Fatum Iustum Stultorum after you smashed his previous home on Begging for Mercy?). I don't think the Marine starts timeline-jumping (or that D/T feels it is necessary) until the W'rkncacnter comes into play; it is a last resort. I still believe that no one has much control over the Marine's jumps until late in the game. : --Timeline 1:
I suggest you make an image out of this :) : --The author is deeply concerned with and/or related to the S'pht.
I disagree... I think the dream terminals come from one of 2 sources: Either the Marine's Jjaro implants, or his human subconscious. When he receives these messages, he is between universes, in a place that does not actually exist, where time, space, and location are meaningless, so that he is completely cut off from all outside observation and interaction until his self-contained Jjaro abilities complete the jump. (One possible objection to this is that he is being moved by an external Jjaro system, but then he would not be able to gain his independence in the end.) So he has no one to talk to but the voices in his head. D/T is actually capable of speaking semi-clearly and in real descriptive English, as he does on Aye Mak Sicur. I don't think the universe of the receiver affects one's grammar :) : And now I can return to the question I asked a while ago: If Durandal and
What about at the end of the game, when the Marine is freed by D/T? Perhaps they form some sort of miniature three-member secret society, brought together in times of great need when all else has failed... It's possible that the Marine, Durandal, and Thoth are all the results of different schools of Jjaro thought on how to control the future. Thoth is prototype 1, the balancer: an entity that tries to find an ideal situation based on the current situation and then works as needed to bring things to that point and keep them there. Durandal is prototype 2, the conqueror: He doesn't have to seek a balance, he is a good enough strategist to be let loose to defeat any enemy and remove their threat to the balance completely. In general he is a more developed consciousness than Thoth, who has a "simple perception" according to Durandal himself. The Marine is the final model, who has the least cognitive ability (I'm sure the Marine is an exceptional human, but he's no AI :\ ) but the greatest ability to alter his world (due to his physical existence), and he is the only one who can both make plans (and take orders) and implement them. So the course of the game is everyone trying their hand at solving the W'rkncacnter problem, with the Marine succeeding and inheriting the mantle of Destiny. Durandal tries to win by defeating the Pfhor, which fails because the Pfhor hold the trump card of a doomsday weapon. Thoth tries to help first the humans, then the Pfhor, then the S'pht, then the Marine, in accordance with his views of the balance of power in Lh'owon. Finally, the Marine steps in (or they collectively give up and turn to him for help, if your post is correct) and does it right, striking at the real problem and winning once and for all. : Here it seems that the Cyborg plus a freed Durandal can muster up some
This is a bit contradictory: I thought you suggested that the movements were being performed by D/T from the future, and limited by the distance they must reach across. Incidentally, the above text is the very I agree more with: Durandal knows of the Marine's latent abilities, and is the first one who decides to use them. However, as in Volunteers, this is Durandal's last resort: Throwing the Marine somewhere/somewhen back in time has a (slightly) greater probability of final success than trying to fight the W'rk directly. : (depending on the time and timeline)
Except that he was rebooted way back in Marathon 1... Perhaps Tycho is Durandal, but without the Jjaro components. He literally is Durandal (cp Durandal.app Tycho.app; ./Tycho.app :P ), but he knows that he is an inferior model and he knows what Durandal can do. Since he is just as intelligent as Durandal, he might be able to deduce what's going on. : If all the timelines were equally
This is why I try to make the end of MI in the same universe as M1 and M2: If the victory is in a seperate timeline, then the Marine hasn't actually done anything at all! He's just looked for a nice place and settled down in it, leaving his "home" timeline to be destroyed. : your former self destroyed : "Former" is always hard to define when time travel's involved, but
I think this instead refers to his development as a cosmic power throughout the game. His former self is a marine from Earth, reincarnated as a battleroid, shipped to Tau Ceti, kidnapped by Durandal|Tycho and brought into an alien war. His new self is Destiny, or possible the intermediate state during the game when he's trying to master his abilities. : So apparently most of your memories don't carry over across timelines--you
I think this problem disappears by the end of the game. : I think probably it refers to some aspect of timeline-switching. The "crushing center" may also be the "nexus" popular in time-travel stories, the single point in time, space, and the plot that is the most important determinant of the future. : The way grows dim This could also refer to the Marine's "way" of merely following orders and killing what he is told to kill. It has long since become obvious that this alone isn't working. : You're being reassured that there is a successful timeline out there, where
The "falling path" may be the failed timeline. If the W'rkncacnter destroys the universe, that timeline may go with it (begging the question of where exactly it goes, and how this affects attempts to travel to it). : Your dark mind cutting through/the deeping sky Slicing open the sky is also a fairly common mythological event. I believe the turning point of Ragnarok occurs when someone does this. : a cold star looked down on his creations
: But there is one very probable occurrence of a generational war: the
I don't believe W'rks are capable of real creation. They are the embodiment of chaos, entropy, and destruction, and as such they should only be capable of negative actions. The creations of the dreaming god in Pathways break almost every known law of nature, and I suspect that they vanished with its death (aside from the destruction of the pyramid by the nuclear device). The scenario An AI Called Wanda had an interesting take on this: I believe it said that W'rkncacnters were accidentally created by the Jjaro during a failed experiment, which would explain why the Jjaro feel so obligated to defeat them. (::Does penances for bringing outside information into a Marathon debate::) : OK. Discuss or I'll cry! I suspect there will be a lot of crying, mostly over the length of these posts :) |
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Replies: |
Dream Terminal Thoughts | SiliconDream =PN= | 1/13/02 1:53 a.m. | |
Good grief! | Hamish Sinclair | 1/13/02 5:44 a.m. | |
Holy Doctoral Thesis Batman! *NT* *NM* | Ernie | 1/15/02 3:27 p.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | Mark Levin | 1/13/02 6:46 a.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | Tycho7en | 1/13/02 8:20 a.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | Cpt. Sqweky | 1/14/02 8:32 p.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | SiliconDream =PN= | 1/13/02 3:47 p.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | Andrew Nagy | 1/14/02 7:00 a.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | SiliconDream =PN= | 1/14/02 1:54 p.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | SiliconDream =PN= | 1/14/02 2:59 p.m. | |
Duplicate post, sorry *NM* | SiliconDream =PN= | 1/14/02 3:04 p.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | Andrew Nagy | 1/18/02 7:24 a.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | Tru7h | 1/18/02 9:11 a.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | SiliconDream =PN= | 1/18/02 1:10 p.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | Andrew Nagy | 1/14/02 7:00 a.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | Tycho7en | 1/13/02 7:43 a.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | SiliconDream =PN= | 1/13/02 1:22 p.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | Tycho7en | 1/13/02 3:06 p.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | SiliconDream =PN= | 1/13/02 11:31 p.m. | |
Wow, it all makes sense now! | Jonah | 1/15/02 12:37 a.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | Tycho7en | 1/15/02 4:04 p.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | Rincewind MoG | 1/13/02 1:23 p.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | Tru7h | 1/13/02 1:49 p.m. | |
Re: Dream Terminal Thoughts | SiliconDream =PN= | 1/13/02 3:59 p.m. | |
Oh, and... | SiliconDream =PN= | 1/13/02 4:01 p.m. | |
Re: Oh, and... | Smasher | 1/13/02 7:29 p.m. | |
Re: Oh, and... | SiliconDream =PN= | 1/13/02 10:55 p.m. |
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