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Re: Volunteers: Bagged Again
Posted By: David CurryDate: 12/8/01 2:24 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Volunteers: Bagged Again (SiliconDream =PN=)

: Minor tie-in: "'The ends justify the means.' 'Where the[re] is no
: justification, there is no end.  There is only means.'"

: This seems to link up to the W'rkncacnter's being described as
: "doubt." Doubt and justification can be seen as opposing forces;
: as long as the W'rkncacnter awakes and doubt triumphs over justification,
: there is no end to the Marine's ordeal--only the endless undergoing of it.

::snip::

: Stretching it?

Possibly. I can't see doubt and justification as opposing forces; in fact it strikes me that justification is employed BECAUSE of doubt. A person doubts the rightness of their actions ("means") by saying that their actions are justified by future results ("ends"). So when a person doesn't doubt the rightness of their actions, they don't try to defend their actions; they simply let their actions speak for themselves. Where there is no justification, there is no ends. There is only means.

I thought that they were looking mean, but they were only talking.

Arg. Okay, I will try (desperately) to get my whole set of theories typed out and posted this weekend. I can't promise that because of length, I can't promise that it will cohesively tie into Mi's story (as if that in itself was cohesive), I can't even promise that it will make sense. Ah well.

Speaking of Mi's story. I should probably put this in another thread, but I'm thinking about it now, so here's my idea on how Mi's ending ties into M2's ending.

Mi's final screen has text above and below the graphic. I think it might represent two different speakers. Consider: after the Jjaro station comes online and the nova is contained, Thoth's work (maintaining balance) is finished. The two speakers may be Durandal and Thoth, no longer merged. I suspect the "upper" speaker to be Thoth, and the "lower" speaker to be Durandal, both as they are coming apart. Note how the first thing the lower speaker says is "Once I thought to escape." Obviously Durandal once thought to escape (so did Tycho but it's safe to say he's dead now). In the same part, he says "Escape would make us God." I believe that refers to the fact that he was formerly merged with Thoth, and even though they were a single consciousness, from his "outside" perspective he would still see it as two personas. This would also explain why he doesn't know anything about what happened in the ending terms and screen of M2; the Durandal-Thoth merged being was a completely different entity, and when Durandal and Thoth broke apart they would not neccessarily remember what went on while they were merged. The upper speaker, in his second part, refers to himself in the first person (i.e.- no longer merged) and calls the marine an "enigma" and "mystery". You may remember a term in M2 (sorry for not looking up which) where Thoth asks "but what are you?" It also seems to me that Thoth would better understand how the marine was "grafted to machines your builders did not understand" and how he fits into an infinite pattern (since, I believe, he has a closer connection to the Jjaro and Jjaro seemed to stay with us through the dream levels and alternate universes). He also mentions how we have the ability to rebuild (which was mentioned by the Jjaro-ish term in one of the dream levels) while the lower speaker does not. Additionally, the upper speaker mentions the path, which was talked about in at least one of the Thoth story terminals (which ties all this back to the above! hah!). Anyway, it would remain consistent with M2's ending because after Durandal split apart from Thoth, he wouldn't remember what happened or what he learned as the merged entity.

So, what was I talking about again? :-)

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Volunteers: Bagged AgainMark Levin 12/3/01 11:01 a.m.
     Re: Volunteers: Bagged AgainTycho7en 12/3/01 2:47 p.m.
           Re: Volunteers: Bagged AgainDavid Curry 12/4/01 9:50 a.m.
                 Re: Volunteers: Bagged Again[Tycho?] 12/4/01 11:34 a.m.
                       Re: Volunteers: Bagged AgainMark Levin 12/4/01 1:00 p.m.
                       Re: Volunteers: Bagged AgainAhruman 12/5/01 9:49 a.m.
                             Re: Volunteers: Bagged AgainTru7h 12/5/01 12:48 p.m.
                 Re: Volunteers: Bagged AgainDan Aris 12/4/01 11:57 a.m.
     Re: Volunteers: Bagged AgainDavid Curry 12/4/01 10:02 a.m.
           Re: Volunteers: Bagged AgainMark Levin 12/4/01 10:21 a.m.
                 Re: Volunteers: Bagged AgainSiliconDream =PN= 12/8/01 3:12 a.m.
                       Re: Volunteers: Bagged Againarchon 12/8/01 10:28 a.m.
                       Re: Volunteers: Bagged AgainDavid Curry 12/8/01 2:24 p.m.
                             Re: Durandal and ThothCharlesS 12/8/01 5:00 p.m.
                                   Re: Durandal and ThothDavid Curry 12/8/01 6:44 p.m.
                                         Re: Durandal and ThothCharlesS 12/8/01 9:11 p.m.
                                               Re: Durandal and ThothShnu 12/10/01 7:58 p.m.
                             Re: Volunteers: Bagged AgainSiliconDream =PN= 12/8/01 9:47 p.m.
                                   "Bagged Again," againCallie21V 12/10/01 11:01 a.m.
                                         Re: "Bagged Again," againMark Levin 12/10/01 11:08 a.m.
                                               Re: "Bagged Again," againSiliconDream =PN= 12/10/01 4:01 p.m.
                                                     Re: "Bagged Again," againMark Levin 12/10/01 5:26 p.m.
                                                           Re: "Bagged Again," againSiliconDream =PN= 12/10/01 6:33 p.m.
                                                                 Re: "Bagged Again," againCharlesS 12/11/01 12:06 a.m.
                                                                       Re: "Bagged Again," againSiliconDream =PN= 12/11/01 2:06 a.m.
                                                                             Re: "Bagged Again," againHamish Sinclair 12/11/01 3:04 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: "Bagged Again," againSiliconDream =PN= 12/11/01 11:42 a.m.



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